[JayinGR]

Ok all I have a serious question here....I started taking core classes at a college here in West Michigan because I want to transfer to law school once I complete my BA...Then I can transfer to law school for my JD....

I was informed by the admissions staff of the law school that once I obtain my JD I have to pass an extensive moral and character evaluation...this has me concerned....so I will be wuite blunt...

They state the following

Applicants must self-report, in a half-inch thick application packet, their criminal, driving, financial, legal, health and educational history. They also must be fingerprinted and pay for an official criminal and driving record background check.

My current financial status is ok I have clean credit finally but what worries me is the following...

Without getting into a long story DW and I got into an argument last summer. MI has a no tolerance law that if the police are called SOMEONE goes to the klink...I went because I felt DW needed to be home with kids...I DID NOT HIT HER OR DO ANYTHING WRONG SO LET ME POINT THAT OUT...Well the assistant DA was not so nice so I hired a big gun atty...he said I should be ok charges will be dismissed well after going three weeks of not being able to live at home and being away from my newboard I told him just get me a plea because I want to go back home...He told me I should not take a plea because they had no case...I told him get me one so I can go back home..He did it was taken under advisement and afterI completed my year of probation it was gone off of my record...but I would still need to disclose this...

Second....civil litigation...whats this mean I cant protect my rights and sue? I have been party to four lawsuits now 5th being filed tomorrow....

I dont want to get all the way through this and pay all this money and not be able to become an atty....

I appreciate any feedback...

Thanks

[hannah]

Jay, you need to see if your plea agreement can be expunged down the road if you keep your nose clean for a certain period of time. When records of an arrest or conviction are sealed or expunged (a notation is made in the file that the records are off limits to all except law enforcement personnel), defendants can, for some purposes, treat the arrests or convictions as though they had never happened. This means in the states that allow it, that you can fill out your forms and truthfully say you have never been arrested. The rules about who is eligible for expungement, and the effect of expungement, vary from state to state. You need to contact the attorney who handled this for you and see if your arrest and subsequent plea can be expunged.

As for the litigation, I truly don't know...this is basically about seeing if you are a moral person who can handle money and the public's trust.

You may want to talk to someone at the law school you plan to go to or the State Bar and find out exactly what you may be looking at.

[centex]

You need to spend some time reviewing what the Bar in your State views as acceptable with regards to past criminal history. As you indicate the case was dismissed, you need to determine whether you have an actual conviction. In Texas, we have a lot of deferred dispositions, and at the completion of the term of supervision, the case is dismissed. An arrest still exists unless expunged, but there is no final conviction for purposes of the record.

And no, it does not mean you cannot be involved with your civil stuff...just make sure, though, that you don't get slapped with sanctions for frivolous litigation. That *would* raise red flags in that category.

It is not the school that makes the assessment. It is the Bar, or perhaps more aptly, the Board of Bar Examiners or similarly titled entity in your State.

[drivel]

Originally Posted by JayinGR

Ok all I have a serious question here....I started taking core classes at a college here in West Michigan because I want to transfer to law school once I complete my BA...Then I can transfer to law school for my JD....

First of all unless your state/schools have some kind of admissions policies I am not aware of, you don't transfer to law school. Once you get your BA, you have to apply anew, take the LSAT, etc.

I was informed by the admissions staff of the law school that once I obtain my JD I have to pass an extensive moral and character evaluation...this has me concerned....so I will be wuite blunt...

They state the following

Applicants must self-report, in a half-inch thick application packet, their criminal, driving, financial, legal, health and educational history. They also must be fingerprinted and pay for an official criminal and driving record background check.

My current financial status is ok I have clean credit finally but what worries me is the following...

Without getting into a long story DW and I got into an argument last summer. MI has a no tolerance law that if the police are called SOMEONE goes to the klink...I went because I felt DW needed to be home with kids...I DID NOT HIT HER OR DO ANYTHING WRONG SO LET ME POINT THAT OUT...Well the assistant DA was not so nice so I hired a big gun atty...he said I should be ok charges will be dismissed well after going three weeks of not being able to live at home and being away from my newboard I told him just get me a plea because I want to go back home...He told me I should not take a plea because they had no case...I told him get me one so I can go back home..He did it was taken under advisement and afterI completed my year of probation it was gone off of my record...but I would still need to disclose this...

Yep, you still have to disclose it. You can make a statement similar to the above, but expect to be questioned on it. I suggest you do some research into case law or character and fitness proceedings in which certain offenses were or were not overlooked by the character and fitness committee.

Second....civil litigation...whats this mean I cant protect my rights and sue? I have been party to four lawsuits now 5th being filed tomorrow....

I'm going to be honest with you, this is going to raise some eyebrows. Anyone party to five lawsuits is going to raise some suspicions. Again, you will have some explaning to do. Any bankruptcys will need to be disclosed also

I dont want to get all the way through this and pay all this money and not be able to become an atty....

I appreciate any feedback...

Thanks

[JayinGR]

Thanks alll....I am a bit concerned with the whole thing as I did have a BK in 2000..and I had bad credit...but my thing is cant people change? I mean serious I went from a young pain in the a$$ who didnt really care to an adult who has a family and wants to do better you know??....

Drivel I didnt meantransfer I meant apply...in order for me to apply though I have to finish my BA....Thanks for the info though I thought I would have to disclose the arrest....

[centex]

Originally Posted by JayinGR

Thanks alll....I am a bit concerned with the whole thing as I did have a BK in 2000..and I had bad credit...but my thing is cant people change? I mean serious I went from a young pain in the a$$ who didnt really care to an adult who has a family and wants to do better you know??....

Jay, there are applicants who have BK'ed in the past. However, you have to be able to rationally explain what got you into fiscal straits. The BK itself will not preclude the approval, but trying to blow smoke about the reasons WILL put the kibosh on approval. Also, don't expect to have any unpaid CO's out there that may have occurred in the period following the BK. Many State Bar approvals are conditioned upon the payment of all defaulted debt.

Drivel I didnt meantransfer I meant apply...in order for me to apply though I have to finish my BA....Thanks for the info though I thought I would have to disclose the arrest....

I figured you probably realized it was an application process as opposed to a simple transfer. It is also not uncommon to apply to several schools as competition can be fierce. Expect to pay $150 or so for the application in addition to the fees for the LSAT.

The arrest will have to be disclosed if you are asked about arrests. Even some schools will ask about that. Just getting accepted to law school does not mean you are approved to practice upon graduation. You still have to sit for the Bar and meet their acceptance criterion. If it was simply go to class for three years and automatically get to hang a shingle, there would be a lot higher number of crappy attornies out there than already exists.

[hannah]

Originally Posted by centex

If it was simply go to class for three years and automatically get to hang a shingle, there would be a lot higher number of crappy attornies out there than already exists.

Not all that long ago all you had to do to become an attorney in several states was to apprentice to one and pay for a license. No school, no bar exam. Then the law changed and you had to go to law school but did not have to take a bar exam. Now, of course, you have to do both as well as pass a vigorous background check. There are still several old attorneys here that never took the bar exam but are still attorneys because they were grandfathered in when the laws changed. It's truly amazing, it it not?!

Jay, I was advised to have a background check run now so as to see what will show up before it is necessary for my license. That way if there are inconsistancies or outright incorrect information disclosed I still have plenty of time to correct those beforehand. Same with my CR's. Those will be clean long before I have to disclose them to the Bar.

[JayinGR]

Thaks for the replies guys...

Centex I love your style.....lol

Hannah where would I go to pull a background check? I would like a detailed one for obvious reasons...

My credit will be perfect as it is now by the time I get that far....My DTI is bad right now but after my bonus this year it will fall and go back up again next summer then fall again....

I hope this will work out....

[centex]

Originally Posted by hannah

Not all that long ago all you had to do to become an attorney in several states was to apprentice to one and pay for a license. No school, no bar exam. Then the law changed and you had to go to law school but did not have to take a bar exam. Now, of course, you have to do both as well as pass a vigorous background check. There are still several old attorneys here that never took the bar exam but are still attorneys because they were grandfathered in when the laws changed. It's truly amazing, it it not?!

And there are reasons for that...mainly that the number of crappy lawyers had increased significantly. Of those that were grandfathered in, they either knew their stuff through experience or they got weeded out as the professional standards became more detailed and they could be sanctioned out of the profession. Some also had enough experience that they are now either judges or are on the letterhead as the "of counsel" and drawing a hefty monthly retirement sum for having sold their name for letterhead purposes...

[hannah]

Originally Posted by JayinGR

Hannah where would I go to pull a background check? I would like a detailed one for obvious reasons...

I would contact your state bar and ask what THEY pull. I will assume Lexis-Nexus will be one as well as pulling up arrest records on the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), and the National Driver Register (NDR). With the Patriot Act and Homeland Security, if you did something against the law or ever even thought about it, there is a database for it although I don't know what the datebase is called as this is all supposed to be secret.

Call your State Bar. Find out what they use. I pulled Lexis-Nexus. I was truly amazed at the erroneous info on my file. I am in the works now of trying to correct it. I was arrested once in a protest (non-violent) at the construction of a hazardous waste (some nuclear) incinerator that had the potential of leakng into the Ohio River. Martin Sheen was arrested at the same protest. I found out that I was suspected of having ties to eco-terrorism and those kinds of groups because I had attended public meetings against the incinerator and had protested it as well as protesting mountain-top removal a few times. Amazing....

[JayinGR]

I have pulled my LN and nothing is in there....not even my BK...42 pages long but all BS BS BS....anyway..I know its somewhere because I got turned down for a job because of it EVENTHOUGH it has been gone for over 6 months now...or should I say it was supposed to be gone since May....I have the paperwork stating it is gone

[hannah]

Originally Posted by JayinGR

I have pulled my LN and nothing is in there....not even my BK...42 pages long but all BS BS BS....anyway..I know its somewhere because I got turned down for a job because of it EVENTHOUGH it has been gone for over 6 months now...or should I say it was supposed to be gone since May....I have the paperwork stating it is gone

Can we all spell reinsertion?? My LN was 74 pages long by-the-way...

[Hedwig]

A bankruptcy stays on your records forever for certain purposes, including employment over a certain salary, mortgages or life insurance over a certain amount. I forget what they are. I'll try to find them later if I have time.

[centex]

Originally Posted by Hedwig

A bankruptcy stays on your records forever for certain purposes, including employment over a certain salary, mortgages or life insurance over a certain amount. I forget what they are. I'll try to find them later if I have time.

And don't forget...there will ALWAYS be a record of the BK in the electronic records, whether it is on a bureau or not. In these days of electronic records, there is a lot more dirt that will be dug up on background searches than people probably want known about themselves...

[Hedwig]

Back in the days when a lot of us were at CreditNet, there was a young attorney considering BK because he had piled up a lot of debt going to school. clc and I really got into it. I was advising him not to. He was worried about making partner someday. clc said it wouldn't matter.

He ended up filing. It made me a little sad.

I'll see if I can find it and post the link.

[centex]

In some firms, it might not matter. But again, that is an internal thing within an office. Some offices might get worked up about a BK and others wear it like a badge of honor. Similarly, a BK generally will not preclude someone from being accepted into the Bar, but there may be some uneasy questions asked about WHY the BK occurred.

I could easily envision some on the boards having problems with such a review because the entrance review committees often aren't going to take the time to listen to "well I owed *someone* but not them and besides that, they didn't do everything by the book and it was beyond the SOL." Sooner or later, the applicant has to step up to the plate and own up to the fact that they screwed the proverbial financial pooch.

[ilovemydogs]

Originally Posted by centex

In some firms, it might not matter. But again, that is an internal thing within an office. Some offices might get worked up about a BK and others wear it like a badge of honor. Similarly, a BK generally will not preclude someone from being accepted into the Bar, but there may be some uneasy questions asked about WHY the BK occurred.

I could easily envision some on the boards having problems with such a review because the entrance review committees often aren't going to take the time to listen to "well I owed *someone* but not them and besides that, they didn't do everything by the book and it was beyond the SOL." Sooner or later, the applicant has to step up to the plate and own up to the fact that they screwed the proverbial financial pooch.

A friend of mine who is a litigator, filed for bankruptcy, and it has not done any harm to him. Of course he had already established his practice. He was up front with me and told me he had filed for bankruptcy due to a divorce and a bad business deal.
I feel that if you have had a problem in the past, better to air it out, say what happened, do not make excuses and let people decide for themselves.
I know anytime I hire someone if they are not up front with me and I find out later, well I am not happy about it. If they are though,I can then decide if I want to hire them or not, and usually do.
Jay, many people have filed for bankruptcy, just be up front, make NO excuses and you will find most people will look beyond that.
As for all the other suits, I think you should have them all done with a few years before you go to pass the bar.
ILMD