[Silent]

Has anyone ever attempted to get an advance copy of a credit card agreement? In other words, have you ever tried to get a copy of the agreement before you actually fill out a credit card application? I tried today with a national bank, went through many channels and layers of red tape and was nevertheless denied. I was told that it is "not part of the process", and that a copy would come w/ my card.

I'm considering scanning a copy of each cc agreement I have in my files and making them available online as examples.

[hannah]

Originally Posted by Silent

Has anyone ever attempted to get an advance copy of a credit card agreement? In other words, have you ever tried to get a copy of the agreement before you actually fill out a credit card application? I tried today with a national bank, went through many channels and layers of red tape and was nevertheless denied. I was told that it is "not part of the process", and that a copy would come w/ my card.

I'm considering scanning a copy of each cc agreement I have in my files and making them available online as examples.

Actually that's a great idea. I often have to make numerous searches through Pacer to find a cc agreement for research.

FYI -- advance looks at cc agreements can most always be found online at the cc company's websites or at least could a few months ago when I last looked.

[Silent]

Originally Posted by hannah

Actually that's a great idea. I often have to make numerous searches through Pacer to find a cc agreement for research.

FYI -- advance looks at cc agreements can most always be found online at the cc company's websites or at least could a few months ago when I last looked.

Thanks for the speedy reply. Im surprised to hear that you were able to find cc agreements online. Id be very interested in a link if you can produce one. On the other hand, are you perhaps confusing the "terms and conditions" information with an actual cc agreement? The former is a mere fact sheet with rate information and initial disclosures, while the latter is the actual agreement governing the terms of the credit account. The terms and conditions info can usually be found (with a little digging) online, but the cc agreement (to the best that I can tell so far) is kept secret until the card is actually issued.

I have made a practice of asking the cc companies I contact for an "advance copy", but so far they have ALL been unable to produce, and in some cases refuse to. Note also that in many cases the account reps are often confused as to the difference between the terms and conditions and the actual agreement.

[centex]

What particular components of the Agreement are you looking for? The essential provisions are in the T&C pages easily accessed online with most lenders. I have yet to have any that had language in the foldable insert that was not in the T&C *AND* that would have altered my decision to apply for a card.

[hannah]

I'm in agreement with Centex. Besides you can always go over to creditboards and ask anyone for a scan of their latest agreement. Seek and ye shall find.

It's the old ones that people are being sued upon that interest me as an archive.

[Silent]

Originally Posted by centex

What particular components of the Agreement are you looking for? The essential provisions are in the T&C pages easily accessed online with most lenders. I have yet to have any that had language in the foldable insert that was not in the T&C *AND* that would have altered my decision to apply for a card.

How could one answer your question if one didn't have an advance copy to begin with? In other words, how could you possibly guess what's in the Agreement? Certainly not based on the info on the T's & C's page. Granted, some of the info is there, but it's a gloss and is seriously reduced in scope.

Regarding the Agreement being a factor as to whether or not one might apply, I'm glad you bring this up. I was looking over a 2004 Agreement I have w/ a major bank/credit card co. Inside the first couple of pages it is disclosed that they will use my information for marketing purposes. As to the nature of this information, that is not so clear, but it does not rule out the information I provided on my initial application (the app is a major source of info after all). In other words, since I had never seen this language in advance, and presuming they use information provided on my app, then I am unwittingly entering into at least part of the Agreement before I've been provided a copy. This kind of info DOES NOT, as far as I know, ever appear on T's & C's (a/k/a Disclosure) pages. Moreover, there is a provision in the Agreement that states that the effective date is not contingent upon use of the card, or any sort of acceptance by the user. Translation: they can pull a date out of thin air. Since the Agreement is unilateral, this to me states that by mere process of application I am, in effect, entering into the credit card Agreement. A copy should be provided to the prospective user at the time of application, or a template even before hand.

[Silent]

Originally Posted by hannah

I'm in agreement with Centex. Besides you can always go over to creditboards and ask anyone for a scan of their latest agreement. Seek and ye shall find.

It's the old ones that people are being sued upon that interest me as an archive.

I'm primarily interested in gaining a general survey of common clauses from recent agreements. I would like to be able to see what the "standard language" is among big banks. This is hard to do when the rule of thumb appears to be that they keep the info sealed up. However, your idea of using info that has been made public is a good one.

[centex]

I have NEVER seen an instance where my information was used for marketing to outside vendors from an application where I did not receive an approval. Further, the marketing of information is something that contains an opt-out clause once you receive the card.

You are either making mountains out of molehills or you are wanting to only apply for the cards that you might be able to most expeditiously scam at a later date...

[Silent]

Originally Posted by centex

I have NEVER seen an instance where my information was used for marketing to outside vendors from an application where I did not receive an approval. Further, the marketing of information is something that contains an opt-out clause once you receive the card.

You are either making mountains out of molehills or you are wanting to only apply for the cards that you might be able to most expeditiously scam at a later date...

Thanks Centex, but I think you have it in reverse order. I'm actually trying to make molehills out of apparent mountains (when you can find the range that is, usually it's so cloudy out that it's hard to see much of anything). Regarding a scam...if that were true, I certainly wouldn't be wasting time around this forum. Keep guessing though, you might come across a creative idea yet.

My example above was but one of many possible. Regarding this specific one, you are correct regarding an opt-out clause, but there is also a sub-clause that categorizes types of information that may be used. These categories are not negotiable (i.e. non-opt-outable). And why should this be such a surprise? From a business perspective, why not make a few bucks selling info that you've collected along the way?

I started this thread w/ a simple question, and that was if anyone had ever attempted to get an advance copy of a credit card agreement. The answer seems clear so far. Call me crazy, but I feel like both parties should know what they're getting into before the deal is done. The banks certainly have a good idea of what they're about to deal with. Why not the user?