Michigan a Community Property State?

JayinGR · 12-04-2006, 03:04 PM

A local gas company is trying to transfer DW's old gas account that was IIB to my current and PIF account with them. They say they can do this because we are married and I am responsible for the bill even if the house nor the gas bill were in my name. WTF......

Further they say this bill is for up until August 02, 06. DW and I moved out of that house in March when I bought this one. There was no electric on the house because they shut it off on their own and I pulled out the MAIN fuse panel for the house so nothing would be on.

It is this gas companies thinking that they can just transfer the bill to me because we are married. I am trying to find if MI is a community property state.

I filed a complaint with the Michigan Public Service Commission they were very helpful so we will see what happens. I just dont know where to find the law.

Thanks

Jay

jlynn · 12-04-2006, 03:21 PM

Community property states are:

AZ, CA, ID, LA, NV, NM, TX, WA, WI

You can't find in the statutes, what isn't there.

Secondly, did your wife call and cancel the gas? Doesn't matter when you moved out, it matters when you told them to take it out of your name.

When you say old gas bill, do you mean the bills up until the date she filed BK? Any gas used after that was not IIB, and she is responsible for them.

jlynn · 12-04-2006, 03:24 PM

Finally, you need to check her BK papers to see if it was really included. I find it odd that a BK attorney would let you include a utility company that was providing you with ongoing service at the time you filed BK. Even if the bill was behind, you run a HUGE risk of being charged a deposit to continue service.

jlynn · 12-04-2006, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlynn

you run a HUGE risk of being charged a deposit to continue service.

edit - you run a huge risk of disconnection and being charged a deposit to reconnect service.

JayinGR · 12-04-2006, 03:51 PM

Ok i stand corrected....Gas company was listed as a creditor in BK....So I dont get it. I called DW she said they never made her pay a deposit for the service. I know they never shut it off before we moved.

I have a call into her BK atty but as you all know from the lawsuit thread he has not been the best of help.

So if MI is not a community property state then how do they get off just putting her bill on mine? This house and all the utilities are in my name only. DW is not even on the mortgage as a party of interest. Soley in my name.

DW did shut the utilities off in March. She called them and I have a copy of the letter that was sent. ( I made her send a letter because another util cmopnay never shut my stuff of before I moved in to her house and they sent the bill to AA hense the current lawsuit against them).

Plus DW did not legally own the house after May...This is a fricken mess....The MRSC said they cant shut me off while a complaint is pending...but thats besides the point...I dont see how they can just say ohh thats your spouse so your responsible for her bill...

That the same as if I used her CC and she defaulted and the CC company ocming after me for the parts I used on it because she defaulted and I was not liable for her CC...It makes no sense...

Thanks Jlynn....now I need to figure out how to argue this with the util company...THEY WERE NO HELP

Enigma · 12-04-2006, 03:54 PM

Does MI have a Doctrine of Necessaries?

jlynn · 12-04-2006, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayinGR

Ok i stand corrected....Gas company was listed as a creditor in BK....So I dont get it. I called DW she said they never made her pay a deposit for the service. I know they never shut it off before we moved.[/quote[

this with the util company...THEY WERE NO HELP

The BK attorney won't be much help, since they were IIB. From what I understand, any balance up until the day she filed BK is non-collectible. Any "debt" - including utility services acquired after the date of filing are indeed your wife's responsibility.

If you have the letter from March you sent, then they can't argue they provided service until August. However she is still responsible for services from date of filing until date of disconnect. You have yet to tell us the alleged time period for these charges.

Absent a Doctrine of Necessaries as Enigma asked about, I'm not sure how they can pawn it off on you.

jlynn · 12-04-2006, 04:13 PM

http://www.michbar.org/opinions/supr...998/Kieft.html

JayinGR · 12-04-2006, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlynn

The BK attorney won't be much help, since they were IIB. From what I understand, any balance up until the day she filed BK is non-collectible. Any "debt" - including utility services acquired after the date of filing are indeed your wife's responsibility.

If you have the letter from March you sent, then they can't argue they provided service until August. However she is still responsible for services from date of filing until date of disconnect. You have yet to tell us the alleged time period for these charges.

Absent a Doctrine of Necessaries as Enigma asked about, I'm not sure how they can pawn it off on you.

Sorry jlynn..we are having a blizzard again....I was going to get pizza but the wipers on DW's van broke... I guess i could tie some string to them and pull them from inside the van...

Util co sats this outstanding bill is from Jan 07 06 - August 02 06

NCO sent her a bill on this 2 weeks ago and she sent out a dv...I am assuming they sent it back...

jlynn · 12-04-2006, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayinGR

Sorry jlynn..we are having a blizzard again....I was going to get pizza but the wipers on DW's van broke... I guess i could tie some string to them and pull them from inside the van...

Util co sats this outstanding bill is from Jan 07 06 - August 02 06

NCO sent her a bill on this 2 weeks ago and she sent out a dv...I am assuming they sent it back...

Well Jan 06 until date she requested disconnect due to moving, are not covered under the BK - your wife is liable for those. But look at the case from 1998 I put up. I don't interpret opinions well, but I believe it says you are not liable for her debts.

With that being said, why would you want to risk your wife's post BK credit rebuilding efforts? Looks like there were 3 months worth of bills before yall moved out. They say a collection or such post BK is the kiss of death.

JayinGR · 12-04-2006, 04:30 PM

Ohh no I am not saying the bill wont be paid. But I refuse to let them shut my gas of and make me pay a bill that I dont even owe just because they say I have to. In reality they are holding me hostage with this issue because if it doesnt get paid then I get shut off unless I file a complaint (which I did)

DW and I have totally seperate finances and credit not a thing we have is joint. I am trying to help her rebuild her credit and I will make sure that the bill get paid but from only Jan till March 28th thats it.

That opinon you found is AWESOME Jlynn....Thank you very much...!!!

DUSTY · 12-04-2006, 07:34 PM

At least it worked in in Sunny Florida

, of course I'd hate to wait and fight if it was a matter of staying warm.

They direct connected me to the Utilities executive office and everything went away except for the grief, wish I had called them sooner.

Pale Rider · 12-04-2006, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayinGR

Ohh no I am not saying the bill wont be paid. But I refuse to let them shut my gas of and make me pay a bill that I dont even owe just because they say I have to. In reality they are holding me hostage with this issue because if it doesnt get paid then I get shut off unless I file a complaint (which I did)

Check to see if they are legally allowed to cut service during winter also. Some states do not allow that practice.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ho...p_106697_7.pdf

JayinGR · 12-04-2006, 10:44 PM

Thanks for the replies and help all.....

I stumbled onto a case tonight where another energy co did the same thing to someone else and a very reputable law firm is representing this person who is suing the energy co and AA.

According to the opinon Jlynn provided if I am reading it correctly they cant do this. So we will see. I filed my ocmplaint with the energy co and the MPSC. The energy co has 10 days to respond.

Thanks

Enigma · 12-05-2006, 07:31 AM

Jay,

In regards to the bankruptcy exemptions allowed in your state, does MI have its own state exemptions of does it follow federal?

I ask because, if it is state, check your state bankruptcy exemption code. It may not allow you to BK utilities.

Enigma · 12-05-2006, 07:47 AM

Jay read this very carefully;

http://family-law.freeadvice.com/div...ge_divided.htm

Although it covers a divorce situation, it may apply to you.

It infers that when a debt is incurred for "the benefit of the family" both spouses are jointly and severely liable for the debt even though only one spouse is a party to the debt.

It does look like they can come after you.

CtrlAltDelete · 12-05-2006, 11:41 PM

Agree with Jay's post #14 - and thanks jlynn very nice find - right on point and in Jay's state. Enigma - respectfully disagree - your source is too general and not up to authority in jlynn's case.

JayinGR · 12-05-2006, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enigma

Jay,

In regards to the bankruptcy exemptions allowed in your state, does MI have its own state exemptions of does it follow federal?

I ask because, if it is state, check your state bankruptcy exemption code. It may not allow you to BK utilities.

I cant find the exemptions Enigama but I do know that I listed a util co in my BK but then again that was 7 yrs ago.

Yesterday when I filed the complaint with the Michigan Public Service Commission they were quite helpful. I called back after i read Jlynn's whole opinion and asked them if I could fax it to them, which they allowed me to do.

I informed the woman at the commission that this happens all the time at it happened to me with my ex-gf's account for the house she lived in before she moved into my house. When she moved out of my house I got smacked with huge bill and had to pay...Well I was stupid then but not now...

I told the woman that what they are doing according to the case ruling is illegal and I can bet I can find an atty who would love to make a class action out of this. Mind you she was typing this all down...

Today I got 3 phone calls from this util company asking me to call them back...Well since it is like a Mt. Everest blizzard out here the sat internet is not working all that well and the vonage phone is off because of the lag....

DW told me when she got home...Did you know consumers called three times?? I was like no I had the phone off because I cant hear anyone...

They want me to call them ASAP and they will be there from 6am to 4pm and I need to speak to the "Senior Resolution Supervisor"....WTF

I do appreciate everyones help. My atty for my AA case said it could be argued both ways....Especially being as it was incurred for the family from Jan - Mar but anything after that he said tough chit