[meehanmama]

Hi there!
I've been reading every thread I can get my hands on... and I feel so ignorant! I had no idea that I had any rights to validate the debt I've been paying on. Hopefully someone can help me out... and let me know If I have a chance to fight this.
Here it goes...

(We Live In TN)
My husband works out of town, and I had recieved a few calls from a collector wanting to verify his address. Since he wouldn't disclose his identity... I didnt disclose my hubby's identity. No harm... No foul.

On 10/24/06... I recieved a call from the collector and my husband was home. They talked for a minute and my husband didnt understand the man... so he had me talk to him. He said he was from the Law Office Of Donald Burak (PA). He instisted that we pay a credit card debt from my hubby's past. I stood my ground for a while stating that I need info showing that he really owes this. The law office stated that he does not have to do that and WILL NOT do so. He said they purchased this account and are now the sole owners of the debt. (This was the 1st time we were notified of the debt. We never recieved a letter from them before this) I stayed strong until he said:

-- "If I dont recieve a good faith payment during this phone call, I have the power to garnish your husbands wages and seize your income tax return. I also see you have a Dodge Grand Caravan..."

This frightened me enough to ask the amount owed and such. He said I owe $18065.23 as of that day. He said we can settle at $10,839. We were ignorant of the SOL laws and had no idea what to do. He made me believe he had a form to enforce garnishment immediately! We have 3 babies and a lot of health problems, so we can't be without our only income.

So, I asked what I can do to keep from being garnished. He said I HAVE to make a good faith payment right now over the phone of 10%. I refused since we dont have that kind of money laying around. I agreed to put $100 on my credit card. So we did that.
I told him the only other money we have is a CD for $1200. He demanded that amount to be due by 10/31/07 (1 week away). He asked how much we can afford each month for our payment agreement. I said it will be hard... but I will try & scrape $100 each month. He said that wasnt acceptable. The lowest amount I can pay is $300 per month. I said thats impossible for us... and he said if we default on this amount, he will garnish all of our wages and sieze our IRS refund. Also, he said that the ONLY WAY for them to recieve payment is through electronic debits from my checking!

I was very upset and felt trapped. He said he is faxing me an agreement and it has to be returned signed via fax before 6:30pm. (This only gave me a few minutes to sign it and send back).

My husband felt awful about this old debt that he was unaware of. I told him I will do everything I can to make some money to pay (Im an at home mom) so we dont lose our van, wages, and IRS refund.

After this, we have had alot of hardships back to back... but I still managed to make the payments. I lost alot of the use of my hands in January due to a medical disease and am just now able to use them more again. 2 days ago, I googled BURAK... and saw complaints from consumers. After reading for a few hours about old debts and such... I went back and looked at our origional agreement. Here's what I am now seeing...

-- There is no statement giving me ANY rights to validate or dispute.
(I was told I Could NOT validate or dispute this... and we were never sent a letter with the 30 day validation period on it)
-- "This law firm is a debt collector attempting to collect a debt for our client"
(says nothing about owning the debt themselves)
-- "You authorized and requested this firm to effect payments by debit
entries to your bank"
(I didnt request it... it was forced on me)

So, I pulled my husbands credit report... and Transunion is the only one that has the Credit card info on it. It says:

charged off as bad debt.
Balance = $8504
Date Opened = 12/93
Date Closed = 11/01
Past Due = $3,089 (which is almost exactly what I have paid the law office)
Est Date to be Removed = 06/08
Last date updated = 05/03

There is no entry on his CR for this law office or the $3000 worth of payments we have sent in... and the origional debt shows that no payments have been made to it. I'm worried our money went no where.
Trans Union doesn't show the date of 1st delinquecy on the origional debt entry (for SOL). Mabey someone can help me determine the SOL by using the dates above. (TN is 6yrs)

With all this said... I am at a loss on what to do. If I had any idea I could validate this debt.,... I would have. Hubby dont remember it and I believe him. This law office lied to me about so many things... I dont even know really where to begin.

Please help this un-aware wife of a consumer... I really appreciate it!!!

[jlynn]

You need good legal help...but if I understand it correctly, YOU agreed to pay a debt that did not belong to you, but rather to your husband? (I'm not being condescending, just want to make sure I understood everything).

Also, you say the money is being withdrawn automatically from a checking account?

[meehanmama]

No offense taken... I appreciate all the help I can get

Yes... I agreed to pay and it was my hubby's debt.

Yes... they said they have to debit my account electronically. He said there was no way around that.

Thanks in advance for all your help.

[hannah]

Originally Posted by meehanmama

No offense taken... I appreciate all the help I can get

Yes... I agreed to pay and it was my hubby's debt.

Yes... they said they have to debit my account electronically. He said there was no way around that.

Thanks in advance for all your help.

DO NOT GIVE THEM YOUR BANK ACCOUNT INFORMATION!!

If you already have given it to them, have your bank change your account number ASAP. Same with your credit card you made the payment with. These kind of collectors have no scruples.

You first need to find out cc sol for TN and also if the payment you made would restart the clock. If the debt is sol like I think it is, and the payment didn't restart the sol, you might be able to get out of this. I would look all this up but don't have the time right now with finals.

In addition your DH needs to write them a validation letter ASAP and send it CMRRR. Get it in the mail tomorrow. This slime gives attorneys a bad name.

The letter need only state that he disputes the debt in it's entirety and he is requesting strict proof. Do not sign the letter in his handwriting, use a script font to sign.

Include in the letter that it is inconvenient to call you at any time at any phone number. If they call before they receive the letter, tell them a validation letter is on the way and HANG UP!! Do not speak to them. If I were you, I would call my cc company and tell them that you want to revoke the payment made to them on your cc. Sometimes you can get it back but not always. Also tell them not to allow any additional charges made by them.

If I have time later, and you haven't found the SOL and restart statutes, I will try to help.

[Hedwig]

She's been making payments for a while, it seems--since October. I sure hope it doesn't reset the SOL in TN.

I would change banks. DON'T tell the lawyers where the new bank is. Maybe try one of the internet banks. As hannah said, get a new credit card number if you used that to pay.

They are NOT going to garnish your wages or take any tax refund without a judgment.

Don't answer the phone when they call. If you don't have caller ID, don't answer the phone at all. If you have an answering machine and someone you know starts to leave a message, you can pick it up. If it's them, just ignore it. Save the messages if you can.

[hannah]

TN SOL: Open accounts: 6 Years, (T. C.A. 28-3-109).

Questions: Did you or your husband promise to pay and make payment to the law firm? Was your husband's name or signature on the paperwork you faxed?

It appears from the attached statutes that if you did all this then since it was his original debt, they cannot force him to pay because of renewal promise. If he did, they may be able to successfully sue under new promise if I am reading the statutes correctly. If he made the promise to pay them and it's in writing, they can probably win in court if they sue. I would still challenge the amount due. If he did not sign any agreement nor any of the payments, then he may be in the clear after May this year as the debt will be OOS.

If they sue, you should be able to mitigate the amount plus violations.

[meehanmama]

Originally Posted by hannah

TN SOL: Open accounts: 6 Years, (T. C.A. 28-3-109).

Questions: Did you or your husband promise to pay and make payment to the law firm? Was your husband's name or signature on the paperwork you faxed?

It appears from the attached statutes that if you did all this then since it was his original debt, they cannot force him to pay because of renewal promise. If he did, they may be able to successfully sue under new promise if I am reading the statutes correctly. If he made the promise to pay them and it's in writing, they can probably win in court if they sue. I would still challenge the amount due. If he did not sign any agreement nor any of the payments, then he may be in the clear after May this year as the debt will be OOS.

If they sue, you should be able to mitigate the amount plus violations.

Well, I agreed to it on the phone (he recorded that part of the call)... and then we both signed the form. I know... just another goof on the unknowing wife's part.

All advise is very much appreciated. Feel free to ask any questions

[hannah]

Originally Posted by meehanmama

Well, I agreed to it on the phone (he recorded that part of the call)... and then we both signed the form. I know... just another goof on the unknowing wife's part.

All advise is very much appreciated. Feel free to ask any questions

You agreed to payments not your DH? If your husband did not sign any renewal promise to pay, and had no part in the dealings with anyone at the law firm, after May, I don't think they can successfully sue and get a judgment. Remember, however, that this is not legal advice and I am not an attorney.

I also think that the assignment was not handled according to TN law. Please read attached. I will try to find more to help.

[meehanmama]

Thank you so much!
I am going to read this article now. I understand that you are not a lawyer... and cant thank ya'll enough for supporting me. I feel very disappointed in myself for being so gulliable.... and I'm thankful there are others here to help me understand this situation.

Bless Ya!

[hannah]

Originally Posted by meehanmama

Thank you so much!
I am going to read this article now. I understand that you are not a lawyer... and cant thank ya'll enough for supporting me. I feel very disappointed in myself for being so gulliable.... and I'm thankful there are others here to help me understand this situation.

Bless Ya!

You have to think about it this way: This is strictly business...this does not involve morals. The morals part is how they coerced you into paying something doubtfully owed in the first place.

[meehanmama]

Thanks for the replies. I would like to take a minute and give an update on my situation. I welcome any advise and all questions. Sometimes I cant respond right away due to my arthritis... but I can read your replies.

Ok... I have been studying/highlighting the FDCPA laws and the Tennessee Code. There's alot of things they violated, so Im compiling a list. Here are some questions I need answered. Thank you so much in advance.

How are violations counted?... example...
Sec 807 FALSE or MISLEADING REPRESENTATIONS
There are 16 subsections in this section. If a collector violates
all of those... is that counted as 16 violations? or is it just 1 violation?

The debt lawyer's letter says the client is ACCOUNT PORTFOLIO MGMT (APM)
I did a search; APM opened its 2nd office last year. Their address is the
same as the lawyer! That is the only info I can find on them.
Does that violate anything? It just seems so fishy.

I looked up debt collectors on our TN state site. It says they must be
licensed in TN and have bond. Out of state collectors can collect here
as long as they "qualify" to get a TN collector license.
They are not listed as being licensed. What does this mean for my case?

INITIAL CONTACT (referenced in origional post)
After the lawyer rambled off a bunch of numbers to my husband... he
handed me the phone. I am the one that handles the checkbook. Hubby
said "I cant hardly understand him... but he says I owe $10000 from an
old card." I said "Do you know what card he's talking about?" He said
"No... I thought I cleared up my college debt a long time ago."
I got on the phone and the "lawyer" needed Phil's permission to
speak to me about the debt. Phil said yes. And then I got back on
the phone. Blah--------Blah---------Blah---------- Blah----------
OK... when the lawyer recorded the oral agreement, it was me (wife).
Then he faxed it to us right then to sign. Hubby & I signed it. Neither
the oral or written agreement said anything about the option to dispute.
I was told by this lawyer that "We bought the debt and are now the sole
owners. We dont have to and will not prove anything." So...
Are these agreements (oral or written) legal?

The lawyer always made it clear that they owned the debt and would garnish
and take our IRS refund if we didnt make payment immediately. I/Hubby
wanted proof about the debt but was told "No." Would this agreement
be invalid since deseption was used during the whole thing?

NEW LETTER
After making the good faith payment of $100, a first monthly payment
of $1200, and a very painful $300 per month (total $3100)... I recieved
a letter yesterday. It is from the lawyer (letterhead) and says...
"You have promised to make regular payments on the above claim, but
it appears that you have failed to do so. If you continue to ignore this
matter, we may have no option but to recommend to our client that it
exhaust whatever legal measures are available to collect this debt
through local counsel in your state. Please call our office immediately."

At the bottom, it has "This is a communication from a debt collector, and is an attempt to collect a debt. Any info obtained will be used for that purpose. As required by law, you are hereby notified that a negative credit report reflecting on your credit record may be submitted to a credit reporting agency if you fail to fulfill the terms of your credit obligations."

WHAT?
- I was forced to have the payments drafted from my account
- Forced into a $300 pmt when I cried telling him there is no way we can
manage that. $100 was the most we could do.
- I had to push myself to the limit everyday, trying to sell enough AVON to
make the payment... while toting around 3 toddlers/babies. Hubby works
out of town and I have no family help.
- The stress of it all caused me to have a severe psoritic outbreak in Jan.
It has covered most of my body and I am insecure about people seeing me
now. I developed psoriatic arthritis w/ nail bed dysfunction in March due to
the severe outbreak. This makes everything I touch painful... so taking
care of my babies is very hard now.
- I have to have weekly blood work done for the treatment. There is no
cure... but I am on methotrexate to help with my symptoms. The cost
of these medical issues has put an even bigger burden on our situation.
- I had to quit selling Avon due to my illness. Now our income is just him.

I cant believe after all the hardship I have taken during this process, they make it sound like we haven't been paying. I know I shouldnt take it personally, but this has been the hardest time in my life. Any advise, info, tips are greatly appreciated.

LAST QUESTIONS
I am ready to send the DV letter tomorrow to the lawyer.
Do I need to send one to the Client (APM)?
Should I go ahead & get a lawyer? or wait?

[Lucy]

Boy did that guy bamboozle y'all. And they wonder WHY they have such a bad reputation.

I am sorry you have having such a rough time and I know with this hanging over your head you are having a lot of grief. Don't let this sucker get you down. You can fight it. If it were me, I would contact an attorney that deals in consumer rights law. This may be too much for you to handle on your own right now. It sounds as though that attorney did a lot of double talk and a lot of what he said is wrong. Did you ever find out what the original date on this debt is?

Compile your thoughts, get everything together that y'all signed, write down what you remember from that original conversation and go see an attorney for some help.

P.S. Be sure to tell the attorney that you are seeing about all of your stress related illnesses. Make sure it is all documented, it may come in handy.

You take care of important things like your babies and your health, let the attorney do the rest.

[jlynn]

I agree with Lucy. You need a good attorney. One knowledgable in the FDCPA and TN state code. Your health and babies are much more important than this.

Have you moved your checking account?

No, you shouldn't take it personally - these are canned letters, but I also know its HARD not to.

[Hedwig]

I agree on the attorney. At this point I might try to prove that at least part of your medical problem is due to this and think about a suit for damages. If it looks good enough an attorney might even take it on contingency.

[roybean]

Originally Posted by meehanmama

Thanks for the replies. I would like to take a minute and give an update on my situation. I welcome any advise and all questions. Sometimes I cant respond right away due to my arthritis... but I can read your replies.

Ok... I have been studying/highlighting the FDCPA laws and the Tennessee Code. There's alot of things they violated, so Im compiling a list. Here are some questions I need answered. Thank you so much in advance.

How are violations counted?... example...
Sec 807 FALSE or MISLEADING REPRESENTATIONS
There are 16 subsections in this section. If a collector violates
all of those... is that counted as 16 violations? or is it just 1 violation?

FDCPA is per action meaning that you do not count each violation as a separate violation. However, there is such a thing as non-economical damages, attorney fees, costs, and expenses. Read my botch thread thoroughly.

The debt lawyer's letter says the client is ACCOUNT PORTFOLIO MGMT (APM)
I did a search; APM opened its 2nd office last year. Their address is the
same as the lawyer! That is the only info I can find on them.
Does that violate anything? It just seems so fishy.

I looked up debt collectors on our TN state site. It says they must be
licensed in TN and have bond. Out of state collectors can collect here
as long as they "qualify" to get a TN collector license.
They are not listed as being licensed. What does this mean for my case?

Check your state corporation site and also whatever department governs licenses. Each states calls it something different; it may be the secretary of state, state banking department, department of financial institutions, etc. The site should have a list of CAs and their licenses such as when they became licensed and laws governing their licenses.


INITIAL CONTACT (referenced in origional post)
After the lawyer rambled off a bunch of numbers to my husband... he
handed me the phone. I am the one that handles the checkbook. Hubby
said "I cant hardly understand him... but he says I owe $10000 from an
old card." I said "Do you know what card he's talking about?" He said
"No... I thought I cleared up my college debt a long time ago."
I got on the phone and the "lawyer" needed Phil's permission to
speak to me about the debt. Phil said yes. And then I got back on
the phone. Blah--------Blah---------Blah---------- Blah----------
OK... when the lawyer recorded the oral agreement, it was me (wife).
Then he faxed it to us right then to sign. Hubby & I signed it. Neither
the oral or written agreement said anything about the option to dispute.
I was told by this lawyer that "We bought the debt and are now the sole
owners. We dont have to and will not prove anything." So...
Are these agreements (oral or written) legal?

The lawyer always made it clear that they owned the debt and would garnish
and take our IRS refund if we didnt make payment immediately. I/Hubby
wanted proof about the debt but was told "No." Would this agreement
be invalid since deseption was used during the whole thing?

STAY OFF THE PHONE! If you must talk go to radio shack or get on amazon and get a digital recorder and record anything said to you on the phone. The conversation above that you mentioned, try to remember it word for word and write it down; date, time, names, every little detail you can remember and start a folder specifically for this and start keeping records.
NEW LETTER
After making the good faith payment of $100, a first monthly payment
of $1200, and a very painful $300 per month (total $3100)... I recieved
a letter yesterday. It is from the lawyer (letterhead) and says...
"You have prom