 |  A question for the members that are adept in law
05-09-2007, 08:37 AM
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#1 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Louisiana
Posts: 170
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Can this account solutions group call and leave on answering machine 'this call is for----. if you are not-----, do not listen to this message. In listening to this message you are acknowledging that you are-----. This is ACG, we are attempting to collect a debt that you owe, any and all info we get on this debt will be added into our records. Call us today with ref.#-----
This is a post from one of the members on the board I moderate.(debtconsolidationcare.com) I know their viewpoint is completely different from what most people believe on debts. I am in the process of schooling them on laws regarding colection,credit,and finance. I woud like to know if this telephone message violates FDCPA and if there is any caselaw I can read to back up the position. I do firmly believe it is not a legal message.You help would be most appreciated.
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05-09-2007, 09:16 AM
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#2 | | HONORED GUEST
Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: West-By-God-Virginia
Posts: 6,873
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This is something that collectors have been using fairly recently trying apparently to get around third party contact as they got their butts kicked in court over voice mail messages so now they think if they word it like this, it is not third party contact if someone else hears it. To my knowledge, this has not yet been taken up in a court of law but since they have been saying it for about 6 months now, I look for someone to already be in litigation over the wording. There was talk on InsideArm about it as well and no one there knows whether or not this wording can win in court if sued over third party contact.
Personally, I believe if a third party listens to it on an answering machine or voice mail it IS third party contact regardless of the wording.
__________________ Let's Go Mountaineers!! Let's Go Drink Some Beers!! If something seems too good to be true, it is best to shoot it just in case... Nothing I post on this forum should be construed as legal advice.
Last edited by hannah; 05-09-2007 at 09:30 AM.
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05-09-2007, 09:32 AM
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#3 | | New Member
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 8
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I agree with Hanna, it's an untested legal issue. I personally have the same type of message being left on my MIL's machine, not mine, and I feel fairly certain it would be a good test case as they are definitely making third party contact in my situation.
Simply stating "If you continue to listen to this message you are acknowledging that you are ____," just doesn't seem like it will hold water against real third party disclosure.
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05-09-2007, 09:37 AM
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#4 | | HONORED GUEST
Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: West-By-God-Virginia
Posts: 6,873
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Anybody would listen to a message like that just out of curiosity if it popped up in their voice mail or on their answering machine. Unsophisticated redneck consumerism... 
__________________ Let's Go Mountaineers!! Let's Go Drink Some Beers!! If something seems too good to be true, it is best to shoot it just in case... Nothing I post on this forum should be construed as legal advice. | |
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05-09-2007, 10:15 AM
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#5 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Louisiana
Posts: 170
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I do agree with what all of yall are saying. A collector says it is legal to use on a supposely verified home phone.What if someone is visiting you and hears it before you. Also people are naturally nosy so it can be very hard to not listen.
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05-09-2007, 10:22 AM
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#6 | | Administrator
Join Date: May 2006 Location: Okinawa
Posts: 7,217
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The collector hasn't met me yet because I would definitely say that this is a violation and I'd argue my point too. How do you leave that sort of message on a phone and not know who may possibly hear it???
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"Be surprised at what people won't do and not at what they do."
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05-09-2007, 10:44 AM
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#7 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Louisiana
Posts: 170
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Originally Posted by roybean  The collector hasn't met me yet because I would definitely say that this is a violation and I'd argue my point too. How do you leave that sort of message on a phone and not know who may possibly hear it??? |
I do agree with you completely.Must be a mindreader to say only debtor will be there!
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05-09-2007, 10:44 AM
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#8 | | Elite Member
Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Way down yonder in the pawpaw patch
Posts: 525
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I think they are pushing things a bit by leaving this kind of message. People change their phone #'s, give wrong #'s and as others have mentioned, it is only human to be nosy/curious as to what the message is. Just because the CA is calling a certain # looking for Joe or Jane doesn't mean a thing. Fric or Frac would listen to the message because, "it's my phone and I'll listen to what I please". I would just let the CA leave the message til the cows came home.
This would be interesting to see how it would be handled should someone sue.
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Why do you have to "put your two cents in"... but it's only a "penny for your thoughts"? Where's that extra penny going to? | |
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05-09-2007, 10:57 AM
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#9 | | HONORED GUEST
Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: West-By-God-Virginia
Posts: 6,873
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Originally Posted by Lucy This would be interesting to see how it would be handled should someone sue. | I will bet that someone already has... 
__________________ Let's Go Mountaineers!! Let's Go Drink Some Beers!! If something seems too good to be true, it is best to shoot it just in case... Nothing I post on this forum should be construed as legal advice. | |
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05-09-2007, 11:07 AM
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#10 | | Administrator
Join Date: May 2006 Location: Okinawa
Posts: 7,217
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You have to listen to the message to know whether or not it's for you or someone else and you never know if a person has house guess, roommates, or if it is a temporary residence for the supposed debtor.
How many people come home in the evening and just play the answering machine?
What are you gonna do? Say "Oops; that's for so and so."
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"Be surprised at what people won't do and not at what they do."
Last edited by roybean; 05-09-2007 at 12:12 PM.
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05-09-2007, 12:03 PM
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#11 | | Administrator
Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Greater DC area
Posts: 7,798
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Well, if you have several messages and that one is first, you would have to listen (or delete) to get to the next one. If it was for a roommate, you'd probably want to leave it, so you'd listen to the whole thing so you could get to the next message.
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The answer is 42!!
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05-09-2007, 12:12 PM
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#12 | | Administrator
Join Date: May 2006 Location: Okinawa
Posts: 7,217
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Originally Posted by Hedwig Well, if you have several messages and that one is first, you would have to listen (or delete) to get to the next one. If it was for a roommate, you'd probably want to leave it, so you'd listen to the whole thing so you could get to the next message. | That's what I am talking about.
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"Be surprised at what people won't do and not at what they do."
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05-09-2007, 03:03 PM
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#13 | | Administrator
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,760
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I would love to get a message like that
__________________
It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain
The information and materials in this document are provided for general information purposes only and are not intended to constitute legal, accounting or tax advice or opinions on any specific matters. Laws and regulations change frequently and their application can vary widely based upon the specific facts and circumstances involved. You are responsible for the applicability and accuracy of Information as it relates to your specific situation. | |
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05-09-2007, 03:07 PM
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#14 | | HONORED GUEST
Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: West-By-God-Virginia
Posts: 6,873
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Originally Posted by Enigma I would love to get a message like that | I have 24 of them, all taped. They started one month after they received their cease and desist notice sent CMRRR. I will be filing soon.
__________________ Let's Go Mountaineers!! Let's Go Drink Some Beers!! If something seems too good to be true, it is best to shoot it just in case... Nothing I post on this forum should be construed as legal advice. | |
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05-10-2007, 03:26 PM
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#15 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Louisiana
Posts: 170
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here is a lawsuit challenging this message type.Thought yall would enjoy it.They are going for third party disclosure just like we discussed here on the site.  I will be watching this one myself since they managed to peak my interest.
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05-10-2007, 05:25 PM
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#16 | | HONORED GUEST
Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Austin-area
Posts: 3,135
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I don't expect you will see much out of that case. Have you bothered to read the language associated with the Stipulation in the extension of time to answer?
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I am not *your* attorney and you are not *my* client. Nothing in this post shall be construed as establishing an attorney-client relationship.
Would you rather us tell you what WILL happen or would you rather have rah-rah bull-droppings from someplace else?
Hint to the prospective pro se litigant that believes they can run up expenses with impunity or disregard direction from the Court: You CAN be sanctioned. Just ask Craig Cunningham or read the Order... | |
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05-10-2007, 05:36 PM
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#17 | | New Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 6
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I have gotten these calls also. They sound very intimidating until you stop and think about the actual words they used. It is impossible to stop listening to your own answering machine jsut because they say you have to if you are not______.
Most of the CA calls I have gotten had a sense of urgency to them such as "Call me as your time is running out and this matter will be referred to our legal department" , but they give you no other information.
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05-10-2007, 07:03 PM
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#18 | | HONORED GUEST
Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: West-By-God-Virginia
Posts: 6,873
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Originally Posted by WGD I have gotten these calls also. They sound very intimidating until you stop and think about the actual words they used. It is impossible to stop listening to your own answering machine jsut because they say you have to if you are not______.
Most of the CA calls I have gotten had a sense of urgency to them such as "Call me as your time is running out and this matter will be referred to our legal department" , but they give you no other information. | They say this so you will think that it IS urgent. Usually the only urgent thing is the collector calling you losing his commission for the month.
__________________ Let's Go Mountaineers!! Let's Go Drink Some Beers!! If something seems too good to be true, it is best to shoot it just in case... Nothing I post on this forum should be construed as legal advice. | |
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05-10-2007, 07:58 PM
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#19 | | Elite Member
Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Way down yonder in the pawpaw patch
Posts: 525
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Originally Posted by hannah They say this so you will think that it IS urgent. Usually the only urgent thing is the collector calling you losing his commission for the month. | 
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Why do you have to "put your two cents in"... but it's only a "penny for your thoughts"? Where's that extra penny going to? | |
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05-10-2007, 09:39 PM
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#20 | | Administrator
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,760
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Have a look at this too, thanks to floridadebtor.com http://www.acainternational.org/fl/i...sep%202006.pdf
__________________
It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt. - Mark Twain
The information and materials in this document are provided for general information purposes only and are not intended to constitute legal, accounting or tax advice or opinions on any specific matters. Laws and regulations change frequently and their application can vary widely based upon the specific facts and circumstances involved. You are responsible for the applicability and accuracy of Information as it relates to your specific situation. | |
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05-11-2007, 09:17 AM
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#21 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Louisiana
Posts: 170
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Well Centex,I never will claim to be an attorney.I was simply sharing information that I found while researching this subject.If that is not allowed for newbsters,I will be quiet and assume the "Mushroom" treatment.
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05-11-2007, 10:19 AM
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#22 | | HONORED GUEST
Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Austin-area
Posts: 3,135
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Originally Posted by cajunbulldog Well Centex,I never will claim to be an attorney.I was simply sharing information that I found while researching this subject.If that is not allowed for newbsters,I will be quiet and assume the "Mushroom" treatment. | You can play mushroom if you want, but to claim a case that has that sort of language in stipulations has piqued your interest is rather misleading...sharing pending litigation is one thing, but it is essential to remember that a Complaint must be viewed in the context of all actions that follow. And the case in question simply does not appear to be one that benefits the masses precisely because it is not going to trial.
Unlike some other boards, we tend not to get overly excited about a case except and unless it actually produces dicta from the Court itself that is beneficial.
__________________
I am not *your* attorney and you are not *my* client. Nothing in this post shall be construed as establishing an attorney-client relationship.
Would you rather us tell you what WILL happen or would you rather have rah-rah bull-droppings from someplace else?
Hint to the prospective pro se litigant that believes they can run up expenses with impunity or disregard direction from the Court: You CAN be sanctioned. Just ask Craig Cunningham or read the Order... | |
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05-11-2007, 02:40 PM
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#23 | | Elite Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 438
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Originally Posted by cajunbulldog Well Centex,I never will claim to be an attorney.I was simply sharing information that I found while researching this subject.If that is not allowed for newbsters,I will be quiet and assume the "Mushroom" treatment. | CBD, try not to have your feelings hurt. Centex's advice most often comes in the form of a hard-to-swallow pill. Sometimes it makes you wince when you take it, but it'll make you feel better in the end!
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Quoted from roybean at IC, "you don't need case law...it is written, so let it be done." | |
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05-11-2007, 02:43 PM
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#24 | | Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Louisiana
Posts: 170
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Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I have met and dealt with worse on my board.
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