Bankruptcy-HSBC filed amended motion for relief from stay

Sassnlucy · 07-05-2007, 08:42 PM

First off-I'm not sure where this thread belongs so I apologize if this is the wrong place. My husband and I filed chapter 13 bankruptcy and our meeting of creditors is Tuesday morning. We have 2 "910 surrender" car loans as my lawyer called them. We let them both get repossessed but the lawyer said we shouldn't be responsible for the balances on them. Today in the mail I got copies of this "Amended motion of HSBC Auto Finance for Relief From Stay." It looks to me like they want to throw out our bankruptcy so they can sue us. Can anyone help me understand this so I don't have a heart attack? Thanks so much.

roybean · 07-05-2007, 08:52 PM

BK isn't my area, but I think they are asking the court to NOT include them in the stay meaning that they want to be able to come after you for the debt (balance), but you said you have an attorney, right?

Sassnlucy · 07-05-2007, 08:58 PM

Yeah I have an attorney....I wonder why they would want to do that.......I know I won't be able to talk to my attorney until the meeting of creditors until Tuesday and I am so scared. I can't afford to pay $10,000 outside of my bk and this would defeat the whole purpose of filing it...........

roybean · 07-05-2007, 09:02 PM

Your attorney should be able to handle this and don't be surprised at what creditors do. Why can't you talk to your lawyers before the meeting Tues.?

jlynn · 07-05-2007, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sassnlucy

We let them both get repossessed

Check with your attorney. If they had not already resold the vehicles before the BK was filed, then HSBC has to seek permission from the court (Relief of Stay) to sell the vehicles. The vehicles became part of the property of the BK Estate, under the jurisdiction of the BK Court the moment you filed no matter whom had physical possession of them.

I am curious about the fact that it was Amended. When was the Original Motion filed? Why did they amend?

jlynn · 07-05-2007, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sassnlucy

Yeah I have an attorney....I wonder why they would want to do that.......I know I won't be able to talk to my attorney until the meeting of creditors until Tuesday and I am so scared. I can't afford to pay $10,000 outside of my bk and this would defeat the whole purpose of filing it...........

That's not going to happen. They cannot get around the BK filing very easily.

Breathe....

Edit - How close in dates from the repossession to the BK filing?

Sassnlucy · 07-05-2007, 09:36 PM

I will try to remember all the questions asked....our bk was filed on May 27th. They repo'd this car about 2 weeks before. These papers say we are $1400 behind in payments. They also had another car under a different account that they have not disputed like this. I am thinking we were more upside down on this one. I have no idea why this is amended. I think my lawyer filed an objection to this. I got something in the mail last week saying my lawyer filed an objection to HSBC's claim. I'm assuming that it is this one.......like I said we had another car loan with them and I also had an HSBC card and this is the only HSBC objection my attorney has filed. My attorney is in court tomorrow so that's why I don't think I will be able to find out anything until Tuesday.

Pale Rider · 07-05-2007, 10:05 PM

Relief from Stay:* Creditor's Rights and Remedies in Bankruptcy

The repo was very close to the filing. There are certain requirements the creditor has to go through before they can sell the car to get their money back. Normally they would have to send you notice of sale and other items outlined in the UCC. You would have a period of time to redeem the car, and if it sold at auction you would most likely have a deficiency they would try to collect.

I am thinking they cannot go forward with the sale until they get the courts permission. If they were trying to get you to pay the full amount, you would probably be in a position to amend to a CH 7, and they would get nothing. If they get the relief to go forward, at least they can get some of their money from the auction and move on.

Enigma · 07-05-2007, 10:49 PM

Why are you doing a 13 instead of a 7?

Are you communicating with your attorney?

cajunbulldog · 07-05-2007, 11:19 PM

Sass,we have a few gurus here that are good on Bk info.However since you have retained legal counsel I would make him/her earn their dough.If you have any concerns about papers you receive,contact your counsel and address them. Good luck and glad to see you over here.

Enigma · 07-05-2007, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cajunbulldog

Sass,we have a few gurus here that are good on Bk info.However since you have retained legal counsel I would make him/her earn their dough.If you have any concerns about papers you receive,contact your counsel and address them. Good luck and glad to see you over here.

Which brings up a question, why was your attorney not contacted directly by HSBC? It is a violation of the ethics rules and the BK code to contact you if they know you are represented by counsel.

Sassnlucy · 07-06-2007, 12:39 AM

I am doing a chapter 13 and not a 7 for a couple reasons: 1. I filed a chapter 7 in 2002 on my own and this is my husband and I doing the 13 2. we have a home that we want to keep. I can't do a chapter 7 again until 2009, otherwise we would have been able to do that I think

From these papers, it looks like they did already send this to my attorney, and this is my copy. I am going to stop in to the attorney's office in the morning.....they have not contacted me about any of this.

Sassnlucy · 07-06-2007, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cajunbulldog

Sass,we have a few gurus here that are good on Bk info.However since you have retained legal counsel I would make him/her earn their dough.If you have any concerns about papers you receive,contact your counsel and address them. Good luck and glad to see you over here.

I know cajun, I am just really scared. These papers really upset me. I don't know what we will do if we still have to pay for this car. We can't afford it and then we would have another judgement against us and that would defeat the whole purpose of filing bk; that is part of why we got into this mess in the first place. I just want to know what I am going to face when I go to court Tuesday.

Sassnlucy · 07-06-2007, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlynn

Check with your attorney. If they had not already resold the vehicles before the BK was filed, then HSBC has to seek permission from the court (Relief of Stay) to sell the vehicles. The vehicles became part of the property of the BK Estate, under the jurisdiction of the BK Court the moment you filed no matter whom had physical possession of them.

I am curious about the fact that it was Amended. When was the Original Motion filed? Why did they amend?

I am so sorry for the double posts. I was just looking over your post here....this is making more sense now. Maybe they want the stay lifted so they can sell the vehicle, right? If so, nothing to stress over???

spinn · 07-06-2007, 01:47 AM

SAss youll be fine.....logically it seems like they want to be able to sell the car as soon as they can...which is reasonable. They can not circumvent bankruptcy...

Let your attorney earn his money...his job is to take the heat.

cajunbulldog · 07-06-2007, 08:48 AM

I would also mention to your attorney what has been mentioned here.Creditors are barred from contacting you once a bankruptcy has been filed.They should be sending out any info or motions to your counsel & the court. Your attorney could then send you a copy of what was sent to them with an explaination of what it means.

drivel · 07-06-2007, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sassnlucy

I am doing a chapter 13 and not a 7 for a couple reasons: 1. I filed a chapter 7 in 2002 on my own and this is my husband and I doing the 13 2. we have a home that we want to keep. I can't do a chapter 7 again until 2009, otherwise we would have been able to do that I think

From these papers, it looks like they did already send this to my attorney, and this is my copy. I am going to stop in to the attorney's office in the morning.....they have not contacted me about any of this.

No one has brought attention to this little tidbit.

I guess you will have to tell us how you got two auto loans with this on your reports and presumably on the credit application. Then the conglomerate here will have a better guess as to what is actually happening in bkrtcy court.

jlynn · 07-06-2007, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sassnlucy

I am so sorry for the double posts. I was just looking over your post here....this is making more sense now. Maybe they want the stay lifted so they can sell the vehicle, right? If so, nothing to stress over???

That's pretty much what both Pale and I are thinking. Especially considering 2 weeks is a very short time to have performed all necessary legal remedies on any repossession and gotten the vehicles resold, I would work under the assumption that they still have the property, and want to sell it now, thus they have to have permission to do so.

I really think you have no reason to stress out here.