[scophreak]

Hey all,

I was hoping to get a little guidance on my situation. Thanks in advance...any help is appreciated.

A little background: I previously had and used a student AMEX card from ~1996-2000. I maintain that I paid in full and closed this account in spring 2000. Unfortunately for me, this is during the time that I was "fast and loose" with my finances and didn't really keep any type of accurate records. Fast forward to ~2004. I receive a letter from a CA claiming that I owe ~$420 on this card. I immediately respond with a verification request and receive a letter stating that the debt could not be verified and that my file was closed with the CA. Furthermore, AMEX would not, or could not, after numerous requests send me past statements to verify the debt. I received no further communications from any parties regarding this debt. However, a negative remark was entered onto my credit reports. I was able to have this removed with Equifax, but Experian and TU refused to remove the negative, stating that they had verified the debt with AMEX.

Recently (on 7/16/2007) I received a call from another CA regarding this debt (the first communication since ~2004). They apparently don't have my current address as they stated my address from 2000 (I have since lived at 4 separate addresses). Thus, I have received no written communication from this CA. I didn't give them any additional information and told them that I did not want any additional communication by phone. I then checked my credit reports and found that the last activity for this account occurred 1/2001. According to my research the SOL for this account should be 6 years from this date (I signed up for the card while in MD, moved to TN, and now live in MA).

My questions: Can the CA legally pursue collection efforts on this account? What are my options on dealing with the CA? Are my FDCPA or FCRA rights being violated by this collection activity?

Again, thanks in advance for your help...

[cajunbulldog]

If they are past sol for civil action,they cannot win any court suit as long as you respond with sol defense. Once they are past sol for reporting this debt cannot be reported on any credit bureau.A collector can collect on it forever unless you are in one of the few states which disallow this. Since this is Amex you will be blacklisted by them forever on their internal records.That means you will never again hold a card with them. If you should desire to pay this debt,contact Amex directly and ask them about the oasis program.

[roybean]

Originally Posted by scophreak

Hey all,

I was hoping to get a little guidance on my situation. Thanks in advance...any help is appreciated.

A little background: I previously had and used a student AMEX card from ~1996-2000. I maintain that I paid in full and closed this account in spring 2000. Unfortunately for me, this is during the time that I was "fast and loose" with my finances and didn't really keep any type of accurate records. Fast forward to ~2004. I receive a letter from a CA claiming that I owe ~$420 on this card. I immediately respond with a verification request and receive a letter stating that the debt could not be verified and that my file was closed with the CA. Furthermore, AMEX would not, or could not, after numerous requests send me past statements to verify the debt. I received no further communications from any parties regarding this debt. However, a negative remark was entered onto my credit reports. I was able to have this removed with Equifax, but Experian and TU refused to remove the negative, stating that they had verified the debt with AMEX.

Recently (on 7/16/2007) I received a call from another CA regarding this debt (the first communication since ~2004). They apparently don't have my current address as they stated my address from 2000 (I have since lived at 4 separate addresses). Thus, I have received no written communication from this CA. I didn't give them any additional information and told them that I did not want any additional communication by phone. I then checked my credit reports and found that the last activity for this account occurred 1/2001. According to my research the SOL for this account should be 6 years from this date (I signed up for the card while in MD, moved to TN, and now live in MA).

My questions: Can the CA legally pursue collection efforts on this account? What are my options on dealing with the CA? Are my FDCPA or FCRA rights being violated by this collection activity?

Again, thanks in advance for your help...

Are you sure you paid the bill in full? You have no records whatsoever to show that you paid; nothing? How did you dispute the debt? In writing and hopefully by certified mail return receipt??? Do you have a copy of the letter you sent to dispute the debt?

Stay off the phone unless you are recording (depending on if you are in a two party state)! You need to keep records and be able to document all communications from the CA.

How many times did you dispute with the CRAs? And if the CA can't vailidate the debt, but have verified it with the CRAs, you a cause for action under 1681s-2(b).

No, they can't legally come after you for this debt and you have FDCPA and FCRA violations?

What do you want to do about this alleged debt and CA?

[scophreak]

Thanks for the replies. A bit more info (and synopsis):

I don't really have documentation that my account was ever closed with a zero balance. As I said, this was in my younger carefree days when record keeping wasn't such a high priority for me. I do recall calling and canceling the card just before I moved in 2000, but of course can't prove this with documentation. I never received any further statements from AMEX, and didn't receive any collection notices until ~2004. Once I received a collection notice, I immediately disputed the debt to the CA via CMRRR, and kept a copy of this letter. I also have a copy of the letter from the CA that I received in response stating that they were unable to verify the debt with AMEX and were closing the file. When I contacted AMEX, they could not, or would not, provide these statements to me. This is the info (along with a statement by me stating that AMEX would not provide me with statements) that I submitted to the CRAs to try and have the item removed. Equifax subsequently deleted the item, but Experian and TU stated that they were able to verify with AMEX that the debt was legit. Overall, I've disputed 3 times with both EXP and TU with the same result each time. From that point on, I received no communication from any CA until yesterday (7/16/2007).

This delinquency was originally reported to the CRAs back in 2001 (my report doesn't state any specific CA, just AMEX), so the reporting appears to have been done by AMEX and predates old and current collection efforts. As I said, my credit reports state that the date of last activity for the account was 1/2001. With the 6 year SOL (which would be 1/2007), AMEX or any CA can't legally sue and collect on this alleged debt, correct? Also, for my understanding, it is legal for the CAs to pursue collection efforts on this debt? From what I can gather, simply ignoring any communication from the CAs at this point can't hurt me. The alleged debt is past the SOL and has already been reported to the CRAs and should fall off in 1/2008. Is there anything that I need to do on my end to insure that I'm covered?

[roybean]

Originally Posted by scophreak

Thanks for the replies. A bit more info (and synopsis):

I don't really have documentation that my account was ever closed with a zero balance. As I said, this was in my younger carefree days when record keeping wasn't such a high priority for me. I do recall calling and canceling the card just before I moved in 2000, but of course can't prove this with documentation. I never received any further statements from AMEX, and didn't receive any collection notices until ~2004. Once I received a collection notice, I immediately disputed the debt to the CA via CMRRR, and kept a copy of this letter. I also have a copy of the letter from the CA that I received in response stating that they were unable to verify the debt with AMEX and were closing the file. When I contacted AMEX, they could not, or would not, provide these statements to me. This is the info (along with a statement by me stating that AMEX would not provide me with statements) that I submitted to the CRAs to try and have the item removed. Equifax subsequently deleted the item, but Experian and TU stated that they were able to verify with AMEX that the debt was legit. Overall, I've disputed 3 times with both EXP and TU with the same result each time. From that point on, I received no communication from any CA until yesterday (7/16/2007).

This delinquency was originally reported to the CRAs back in 2001 (my report doesn't state any specific CA, just AMEX), so the reporting appears to have been done by AMEX and predates old and current collection efforts. As I said, my credit reports state that the date of last activity for the account was 1/2001. With the 6 year SOL (which would be 1/2007), AMEX or any CA can't legally sue and collect on this alleged debt, correct? Also, for my understanding, it is legal for the CAs to pursue collection efforts on this debt? From what I can gather, simply ignoring any communication from the CAs at this point can't hurt me. The alleged debt is past the SOL and has already been reported to the CRAs and should fall off in 1/2008. Is there anything that I need to do on my end to insure that I'm covered?

As I said, "Keep records of everything." Start a folder and don't ignor the CA.

Write to them by CMRR, and tell them that you have previously disputed this alleged debt and I am now disputing this alleged debt again in its entirety. It is an inconvenience for you to contact me by phone anywhere or at any time.

Note; I don't give up a lot of information in my letters. Short and sweet is best!

If they call you after recieving the above message, you another cause for action.

[scophreak]

Originally Posted by roybean

As I said, "Keep records of everything." Start a folder and don't ignor the CA.

Write to them by CMRR, and tell them that you have previously disputed this alleged debt and I am now disputing this alleged debt again in its entirety. It is an inconvenience for you to contact me by phone anywhere or at any time.

Note; I don't give up a lot of information in my letters. Short and sweet is best!

If they call you after recieving the above message, you another cause for action.

This is where I have the problem. To date, I have not received anything from the current CA in the mail (the address that they had on file for me was my address back in 2000 and I've since moved 3 separate times). I only received a phone call which was not very clear (on my cell phone, not necessarily in a quiet environment). Thus, I don't even have the name of the CA that's trying to collect the debt. I have the phone number that the CA called from, but it was busy when I tried to call back to determine the company name and reverse phone lookup came back as unlisted. So, as of now, I only know that a CA is trying to collect, but have received no official communication other than a phone call. Having no address, I cannot even send a dispute letter at this point. What would your course of action be?

[roybean]

Save, print, and/or file the copy of the cell phone bill showing the number. Put in your file of records. Records, records, records...I can't stress that enough because they will lie and say that it never happened and it will be your word against theirs if it comes down to it unless you can document every little thing.

You said AMX is the one reporting on your file (not the CA), right? Then I would just sit back and wait and let them violate some more.

[Enigma]

Originally Posted by cajunbulldog

If they are past sol for civil action,they cannot win any court suit as long as you respond with sol defense. Once they are past sol for reporting this debt cannot be reported on any credit bureau.A collector can collect on it forever unless you are in one of the few states which disallow this. Since this is Amex you will be blacklisted by them forever on their internal records.That means you will never again hold a card with them. If you should desire to pay this debt,contact Amex directly and ask them about the oasis program.

It is possible to lose a lawsuit even if you assert the SOL defense.

[Enigma]

You can still be sued on a debt that is past the SOL. Since you have moved several times, the running of the SOL may have been tolled. You will need to learn what the SOL is and how they can be tolled for each state you have lived in.

By communicating with the CA by phone and refusing to give them an updated address you severely limit your chances in court. All a CA has to do according to the FDCPA is mail you a notice. The FDCPA does not say you have to receive it and there is case law on this subject.

By not providing a current address the CA can file a lawsuit at your last know address, have sewer service preformed and obtain a default judgment against you.

Since you have talked to the CA already, there is no harm in calling them back and get their address and then write a dispute letter to them.

Become proactive.

Then I'd write Amex, explain according to your records that you closed and PIF the account in xx/xx/xx. Ask them for copies of your file. Amex was one of the first companies to keep all records on their cardholders. They have a memory like an elephant.

[scophreak]

Originally Posted by Enigma

You can still be sued on a debt that is past the SOL. Since you have moved several times, the running of the SOL may have been tolled. You will need to learn what the SOL is and how they can be tolled for each state you have lived in.

I did move several times, however, all but one of these was within TN. The original collection notice (from a different CA) was received at my last address in TN in 2003-2004. The reported last activity date of this alleged debt (on my credit report) is 1/2001. I moved from TN in 9/2005 and have lived at the same residence in MA ever since. Where can I find reliable information regarding possible tolling of the SOL? A quick skim of the TN statute didn't glean any information.

By communicating with the CA by phone and refusing to give them an updated address you severely limit your chances in court. All a CA has to do according to the FDCPA is mail you a notice. The FDCPA does not say you have to receive it and there is case law on this subject.

By not providing a current address the CA can file a lawsuit at your last know address, have sewer service preformed and obtain a default judgment against you.

Since you have talked to the CA already, there is no harm in calling them back and get their address and then write a dispute letter to them.

I can certainly contact the CA from my end to get the pertinent information regarding my file (file number, etc). Being proactive is likely good advice in this situation. As far as the dispute, which direction would you go with it? The possibilities that I see are 1) a general request for debt validation or 2) notification that the SOL on this debt has expired. Am I better off with either one, or should I include both in my dispute?

Then I'd write Amex, explain according to your records that you closed and PIF the account in xx/xx/xx. Ask them for copies of your file. Amex was one of the first companies to keep all records on their cardholders. They have a memory like an elephant.

As I think I've stated before, I've already attempted this route twice. I have written AMEX requesting validation and copies of my past statements two separate times (I have copies of these letters). I also attempted this by phone before I sent the letters. AMEX has never replied or sent copies of anything to me validating this debt (and I know they received the requests as they were sent CMRRR)

[Enigma]

A basic letter stating that you are "disputing the character, amount and legal status of the alleged debt."

As far as the SOL is concerned you will need to read the statutes from each state.

There are others here who are better versed in TX law than I am.

[centex]

Enigma, they were in TN not TX

As to writing to AMEX, my question for the OP would be to whom and in which office was the letter sent. As Enigma pointed out, they have memories that make elephants jealous, so beware the law of unintended consequences...

Regarding tolling and SOL issues, look to MA law to see if it contains a borrowing provision. After nearly two years, you may be covered under the laws of that State. However, I am not familiar with the statutes of either TN or MA and do not have the time to research them at present. But unless you were looking to farm any representation out, you need to become versed in the manners of researching statutes and caselaw or else you will be the proverbial ball of yarn for a cat to play with...

[hannah]

Read this thread concerning tolling in TN.

[Enigma]

If you really want to wake up AMEX, you can use what is called a Motion to Perpetuate in accordance with Rule 27(a)(1)of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure.

But tread very, very carefully. You may not like what you encounter unless you are prepared to pay in full.