[rubyruby27]

I understand the cut and dry version of determining when the 7yr reporting period starts but I need help to determine when its not cut and dry.

I don't have proof of when the actual 7 yrs started-but I do know the date of last payment is not the date.

I know that on 2 accts the date of last payment is the date they are using. The accounts were closed years before but I made partial payments, the accounts were never cured.

I found on a statement that an account was closed 3/01 (it wasn't charged off until 6/03) the account was never brought current after that point but I continued to pay until 10/02 which is the date they are using for the 7 yr reporting period.

How does one prove re aging or is the date of last payment the date since partial payments were made up to that point.

I know FCRA says any delinquent acct that is placed for collection (internal/external) or charged to profit or loss. How do I prove this besides discovery. I have to file the suit and I need to be accurate in my COA's

[rubyruby27]

Does the FTC answer anyones questions quickly or do they pick and choose and it takes forever.

[Hedwig]

I'm not sure the FTC answers individual questions. I think they collect data and put out general guidelines, but I'm not sure. Maybe someone more knowledgeable will jump in.

[rubyruby27]

It's the plaintiffs responsiblity to prove their case--I would be the Plaintiff therefore I need to know how to show they re aged. I know its not the date of the last payment its the date it first defaulted that lead to collections internal or external or charged off. But I don't know how to prove it. I think I have a something from 01 that shows the account was closed for irreg and missed payments (demand for payment) but not charged off.

All my TL's show the date of the last payment as the date the 7 yrs started.

[rubyruby27]

I just re read Brinchehoff FTC opinion but thats the cut and dry version.

I need to know what fits my situation or how do I obtain the information.

[jlynn]

Old statements showing when you were first delinquent, and the fact that you never caught up would prove your case.

[rubyruby27]

I have more than one case and I don't have any info that I know of to prove when it went delinquent.--In order make my case it would have to be done in discovery.

[rubyruby27]

Although I am looking for specific credit information on 2 accounts I did find out that a recent JDB has reaged the TL they are listing by several months also the OC re aged by 2 months after they sold the account. When the OC sold the account they re aged it by 2 more months then the JDB re aged by 2 months.

Thank goodness for old CR's (hard copies)

Now for another question. After going over my CR's I noticed on one in 2003 that the dates to go positive on the accounts are switched.

This is where I am joint on one and individual on another-same company

The dates shown on the 03 CR to go positive are switched from the date on the current listing of the TL's--is that enough to show they don't know what they are doing. They corrected this at some point but would that show anything to help me.

They change it to the the date of my last payment in 02 that the 7 yr starts and the other one is from 2003.

On one of the JDB's that I really want to get I found on my CR from 03 this account was closed in 8/01 by the OC--it was never cured but I paid on it for a while again the last payment being 10/02-which is the date they are using for the 7ys- that should be sufficient proof correct. After this one CR the dates are the same.

I think I just found my ammuntion on the above account on EX 7/14/03 it shows the account when late 6/2001--8/01 (TU says it was closed in 8/01) then I made a partial payment in 9/2001 which didn't cure it. then no payment until 11/2001 it didn't cure it then a payment in 6/02 its not cured then a pyment in 11-2002 thats it.

So the account was closed in 8/01 that indicates this account was in arrears for 6 months so the first date of delinquency would have be 2/01 so the reporting period for the 7.5 years is 8/08 or is it 2/09.

There reporting 10/09

[jlynn]

Originally Posted by rubyruby27

So the account was closed in 8/01 that indicates this account was in arrears for 6 months so the first date of delinquency would have be 2/01 so the reporting period for the 7.5 years is 8/08 or is it 2/09.

There reporting 10/09

The creditor closing the account does not indicate anything. Many of them will close the account long before it is charged off. A few will close it when you are 30 days late. Assume you have a large credit line, but only a small balance that you aren't paying. Even with late fees and such, you have not maxxed it out. If they don't close the account, technically, you could still charge more on it, and expose them to more loss.

[rubyruby27]

One of the old CR's says it was closed in 8/01. Then in another section it shows the payment history--in that section it shows it was delinquent. To me but please correct my thought process if it is wrong, that would indicate to a reasonable person this account was closed for non payment therefore the date for the 7 yrs to start would be from the 1st delinquency.

Isn't the TILA straightforward on charging off, that they must charge off no later then 180 days or sooner, if the account was closed thats a negative and would indicate at some point it was turned over to collections (internal)--I don't have that info. but the payment history supports this.

The charge off is from the last payment.

The FCRA says any delinquent account that is placed for collection (internal/external) or charged to profit and loss.

Banking industry---if the account is closed for non payment or intermittent payments would that non indicate it went to internal collections.---Who has the authority to close accounts.

Just questions so I can research more to try and find the right answer.

I found proof it went to the collections dept (internal) June 2001.

The credit report says it was closed 8/01 so it has been re aged ?

[centex]

Originally Posted by rubyruby27

I found proof it went to the collections dept (internal) June 2001.

The credit report says it was closed 8/01 so it has been re aged ?

NO! The two events, while possibly linked in some closures, do not go hand in hand. There are plenty of people that go to internal collections staff but who never have their accounts closed...there are lots of people out there who are routinely 30-60-90 late on multiple occasions during a year. Their accounts are not closed by the lender because they 1) bring the accounts current and 2) are cash cows because of their obvious willingness to pay the fees for being unable to stay current on a monthly basis.

The point at which some lenders will close an account varies...some will have it shut tight before the 60th day past due and others keep the accounts open until 120-150 days late.

The guidelines regarding closure requirements and reaging that is permissible with an agreement between the parties are contained in the FDIC rules.

[roybean]

Ruby, this is why I say that you can never have enough documentation; you need copies of old and new reports, any documents or receipts stating when you made a payment, had contact with anyone such as the OC or CA. When things come in the mail, I write the date on the envelope and staple it to the letter, if you buy money orders keep the stub and the receipt; and I make copis of the MO after I fill it out. If you can show just two items demonstrating different dates and or amounts, then you have shown enough and you can state in your coomplaint that discovery will demonstrate furher evidence.

You said above that the burden of proof is on you, so you have to be able to document as much information as possible, and discovery is an added benefit because then you can ask for more records.

[rubyruby27]

Centex thanks along with Jlynn however something isn't right.

I am trying to figure out when the 7 yr reporting period by FCRA started and I am finding that impossible to do.

From my understanding of FCRA 623 (5) ? the reporting period starts when an account goes delinquent that is placed for collections (internal or external) or charged to profit and loss.

Is this incorrect?

The DF has 90 days to place this date on the CR and then another 180 days so thats 7.5 years for reporting.

If the DF closed the account and then reported the date to go positive to be 3/08 it would appear to me that unless I cured the default or made a written agreement with the OC this date can not change.

I also noticed on a CR from 06 this same date (3/08) is being reported as the go positive date. Then after this all of the other CR's say from the last payment date.

Something is right. I know I am thick at times but it cann't be that difficult.

[rubyruby27]

You have given me hope Roy.

So the demand for payment I recieved in 6/01 along with a credit report from 03 and 06 saying the date closed was 8/01 and the dates to go positive is posted on both as 3/08 should be sufficient evidence to demonstrate I have a COA for re aging.

The last payment I made did not cure the default amount. On the 10/06 the OC again has date closed 8/2001 and est date to remove is 3/2008, while the JDB is reporting 10/2009.

The OC deleted thier TL when I disputed in 10/06. I didn't pull another hard copy until 7/07. Just online and they don't show dates to go positive.

[hannah]

Call the OC and ask what the date was that you made the last payment which brought the account current. Thirty days after will be your DOLFD from which the FCRA SOL starts running. The OC, of course, may not still have those records available but you can try.

[rubyruby27]

If I recall I did that over a year ago and they referred me to the JDB--

I need real legal advice on the reporting period.

If the OC was reporting 3/08 I don't see how the JDB could change that date. Even if I cured it, the OC never changed the date of 3/08 until the deleted their TL in 10/06

[centex]

The data furnisher is not who reports the date that an account will 'go positive.' Rather, that is a mathematical computation made by the CRA internal software operations.

If you don't like the *free* guidance that you get from those on the boards who are schooled in law and who are attempting to give you answers using your fragments of information spread around god-only-knows-how-many threads, then perhaps you need to pony up and *pay* someone local to you.

You've tried my patience for the last time...