[Lecasbas]

I timely DV'ed a CA. I received a response expecting to contain some sort of validation. What I got was a follow up letter saying that they had not heard from me and their lawyer recommended legal action.

My thoughts are that they do not wish to respond to me since they do not have assignment. I believe I will be receiving a summons in the near future.

My question at this point is: how can I prove that the CA got the DV letter which was inside of the envelope that had the green card? I have been doing court action with the same DV on other cases not related to this one. Couldn't the CA say that the CRRR contained one of the other motions from one of the other actions? How would I prove different?

I would like to add that I have never CRRR any court action to anyone but I do CRRR every DV. This much is documented.

And...in the future, what can I do to any DV letter to make sure that the CA cannot deny getting it?

[hannah]

Originally Posted by Lecasbas

I timely DV'ed a CA. I received a response expecting to contain some sort of validation. What I got was a follow up letter saying that they had not heard from me and their lawyer recommended legal action.

My thoughts are that they do not wish to respond to me since they do not have assignment. I believe I will be receiving a summons in the near future.

My question at this point is: how can I prove that the CA got the DV letter which was inside of the envelope that had the green card? I have been doing court action with the same DV on other cases not related to this one. Couldn't the CA say that the CRRR contained one of the other motions from one of the other actions? How would I prove different?

I would like to add that I have never CRRR any court action to anyone but I do CRRR every DV. This much is documented.

And...in the future, what can I do to any DV letter to make sure that the CA cannot deny getting it?

That's an interesting question. How does a CA prove they sent you a dunning letter? Why they say that it's done in the normal course of business so your argument in your scenario is "Your honor, why would I send them an empty envelope CMRRR?" Your green card that they received and signed for it speaks as loudly as does their "normal course of business" argument. I would have hoped that you copied the letter before you mailed it and stamped or wrote "COPY" on it.

BTW - Very seldom does a CA or a JDB send validation as laid out in the FDCPA. Don't expect it. Your next letter to them (sent CMRRR of course) is to say that they apparently neglected to actually read the letter you sent to them that they signed for on xxxx date and that you are still awaiting validation pursuant to federal law.

Don't make this harder than it is...you are, as are we all, an unsophisticated consumer...

[centex]

Your reasonable steps will have included the placement of the CMRRR tracking number in your address header on the letter.

While the courts are loathe to buy into the unsophisticated consumer crap when someone has been involved in more than one case, the reality is that between this thread and your other one, you are making this shit much more difficult than it needs to be.

[Hedwig]

Here's what I would do in the future: Go to the post office ahead of time and pick up the certified mail receipts. Fill it out as you write the letter. Then put the Certified Mail number ON THE LETTER.

In other words:

Scumbag CA
123 Some Street
Anywhere, USA

Certified Mail Receipt Number: xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (I don't know the format of the number)


When you mail it, take the receipt you get back from the post office and staple it to the copy of the letter. When you get the green card back, staple it to the letter as well.

[Lecasbas]

Original post by: hannah

"Your honor, why would I send them an empty envelope CMRRR?" Your green card that they received and signed for it speaks as loudly as does their "normal course of business" argument.

They may claim it was an empty envelope, I never thought of that. I was expecting their answer to be that the CRRR was from another motion which I had sent from another case. I guess, what's the difference - empty envelope or wrong insertion?

I would have hoped that you copied the letter before you mailed it and stamped or wrote "COPY" on it.

I do make copies of everything and put one in my appropriate file. I don't understand the significance of actually writing "copy" directly on the letter being sent.

BTW - Very seldom does a CA or a JDB send validation as laid out in the FDCPA. Don't expect it.

You never know...the first and only CA that I did DV so far did respond. They sent a last statement but no assignment. We wrote several follow up letters to each other. Still no assignment. I used this evidence of non compliance as support for my affirmative defenses. This action was quickly dismissed at the first trial, I believe, due to this documentation.

Your next letter to them (sent CMRRR of course) is to say that they apparently neglected to actually read the letter you sent to them that they signed for on xxxx date and that you are still awaiting validation pursuant to federal law.

I have the envelope in hand and will try to do as someone else suggested to me. When I get to the post office, I will personally hand print the number of the green card on the letter inside. Then I will pay the extra dollar and ask for the personal endorsment of the head of the lawfirm.

Don't make this harder than it is...you are, as are we all, an unsophisticated consumer...

This may be what you are saying again. The plus I see here is that I may be able to convince the judge that this lawyer put me through entirely too much trouble and I should be awarded a higher amount on my Counterclaim.

[roybean]

I stock up when I go to the post office and I have my letters already typed with the certified number across the top of the letter before I go to the post office to mail them.

I make copies of the ittle green stub that they stamp and I check on line to see when it has been delivered and signed for.

The green card (once you get it back) is legal proof that you sent the letter.

[Lecasbas]

Original post by: centex

While the courts are loathe to buy into the unsophisticated consumer crap when someone has been involved in more than one case, the reality is that between this thread and your other one, you are making this shit much more difficult than it needs to be.

I never said anything about being an unsophisticated consumer.

[Hedwig]

Originally Posted by roybean

I stock up when I go to the post office and I have my letters already typed with the certified number across the top of the letter before I go to the post office to mail them.

I make copies of the ittle green stub that they stamp and I check on line to see when it has been delivered and signed for.

The green card (once you get it back) is legal proof that you sent the letter.

That's what I meant. Don't wait until you go and hand write the number in. Have the forms at home and have it typed on the letter. Then there can be no argument that you added it later. It's part of the letter.

I see no reason to pay extra to get a particular signature. A signature that someone signed for it is all you need. In fact, when you mail taxes to the IRS and some states, the signature is a rubber-stamp signature. It's still proof that the letter was received.

[centex]

Originally Posted by Lecasbas

Original post by: centex



I never said anything about being an unsophisticated consumer.

No but Hannah did...hence the comment. In the context of the thread, the comment was appropos.

[Lecasbas]

Original post by: centex

No but Hannah did...hence the comment. In the context of the thread, the comment was appropos.

What is appropos?

[hannah]

Originally Posted by Lecasbas

I never thought of that. I was expecting their answer to be that the CRRR was from another motion which I had sent from another case. I guess, what's the difference - empty envelope or wrong insertion?

None. You still have the green card that they received and signed for it.

Originally Posted by Lecasbas

I do make copies of everything and put one in my appropriate file. I don't understand the significance of actually writing "copy" directly on the letter being sent.

Didn't say that. Said write COPY on the copy of it that you keep.

Originally Posted by Lecasbas

You never know...the first and only CA that I did DV so far did respond. They sent a last statement but no assignment. We wrote several follow up letters to each other. Still no assignment. I used this evidence of non compliance as support for my affirmative defenses. This action was quickly dismissed at the first trial, I believe, due to this documentation.

In validation, they are under no obligation to send you assignment. They are obligated under Iowa Code § 539.3 to send you a notice that they are the assignee.

539.3 Assignment of open account.
An open account of sums of money due on contract may be assigned. The assignee, including a person who takes assignment for collection in the regular course of business, has a right of action on the account in the assignee's own name, subject to the defenses and counterclaims allowed against the instruments mentioned in section 539.2, before notice of the assignment is given to the debtor in writing by the assignee. In case of conflict, uniform commercial code, section 554.9404 or 554.9405, controls.

While you are correct in court procedure to demand strict proof of the JDB's right to collect, they are under no obligation to you legally to send you more than written notice than that they are now the assignee. There may be more on this in Iowa precedent but I have not had time to research it.

[Lecasbas]

Original post by: hannah

While you are correct in court procedure to demand strict proof of the JDB's right to collect, they are under no obligation to you legally to send you more than written notice than that they are now the assignee.

The fact that the the Defendant wrote the CA asking for assignment and the CA did not produce said assignment helps build a case for non compliance by the CA.

I'd like to than everyone for the advice to get my green cards ahead of time. I didn't know a person could do such a thing.

[Hedwig]

Originally Posted by Lecasbas

I'd like to than everyone for the advice to get my green cards ahead of time. I didn't know a person could do such a thing.

At my post office, they are on the counter in the lobby. You can get them even when the counter is closed, since our box lobby is open all the time.

Getting them ahead also means you're not holding up the line while you fill them out!!

[Lecasbas]

Thanks again.

[centex]

Originally Posted by Hedwig

At my post office, they are on the counter in the lobby. You can get them even when the counter is closed, since our box lobby is open all the time.

Getting them ahead also means you're not holding up the line while you fill them out!!

You don't even need to go into a lobby to get them...order them online. I usually get mine in bulk- 250 or so at a given time. Ditto on other supplies.

[centex]

Originally Posted by Lecasbas

The fact that the the Defendant wrote the CA asking for assignment and the CA did not produce said assignment helps build a case for non compliance by the CA.

It does nothing of the sort. The standard that generally must be met in a courtroom is not the same contemplated by the FDCPA or state-level equivalents. Unless there is controlling caselaw in your jurisdiction that says otherwise, the initial letter that contained the mini-Miranda and that also indicated that they were now the assignee would appear to satisfy the notice requirement outside of litigation.

[Lecasbas]

Original post by: centex

It does nothing of the sort. The standard that generally must be met in a courtroom is not the same contemplated by the FDCPA or state-level equivalents. Unless there is controlling caselaw in your jurisdiction that says otherwise, the initial letter that contained the mini-Miranda and that also indicated that they were now the assignee would appear to satisfy the notice requirement outside of litigation.

Forget the FDCPA in my scenario. I write DV letters for 2 reasons. The 1st is for the FDCPA reasons which I now declare immaterial for my point at hand.

The 2nd reason is to show the Court that I have already documented a request that the Plaintiff provide me with its authorization to collect the Bad Debt.

This is a real event. The action was dismiss due to no proof of assignment by the Plaintiff. I did submit several personal requests for assignment as an exhibit. In the said exhibit I included the Plaintiff's responses of a last statement of account but no assignment. The Court ruled in her order, after reviewing these documents, that "the Plaintiff had not provided assignment.

C'm on, c'm on, what is appropos????