[LoveLife]

Here is my situation:

I turned 22 on October 6th of this year.

When I was 16 or 17, I had a car registered in my name. I sold it to this guy I knew and thought that my parents handled the paperwork. At this time, I didn't know everything that is involved with selling a car and figured my parents took care of it.

Well, the car never got taken out of my name. The guy I sold it to sold it to another guy and he was driving it around still in my name. The second guy crashes it, and leaves it on the side of the road.

I get a bill in the mail saying I owe $1,XXX amount to a tow truck (if I remember correctly). You know, I'm 17 so I didn't take it seriously. I figured it was the tow truck place trying to scam me or something because that sounded like an outrageous amount for a tow.

It ends up going to collections and now it's on my credit. I just checked my free Experian report and it looks like it's up to $2,134 now.

It also says that the collection agency opened the account 11/03 - the month after I turned 18. So it looks like they were waiting for me to turn 18.

Obviously, this has me stressed because it is really screwing my credit. My question is about liability. When I tell people about my situation, a few times I've been told that legally I was not liable since it happened when I was a minor and that I should be able to dispute it, somehow prove that I was a minor, and have it removed from my credit.

Here are my questions:

1. Is it true that since I was a minor at the time that guy crashed the car that I was not liable?

2. Where could I find information on the process of proving I was a minor, etc? I was told by a loan officer friend that "it's a lot of legwork".

3. I was going to initiate a "dispute" on the Experian site, but I was worried about the statute of limitations. I won't "restart" the time period on the debt (the time it takes for it to become uncollectable), will I?

4. Any more tips?


Also, I'm from California if that means anything.

Thanks!

[roybean]

I think JLyinn knows about the 'minor' issue, but I always thought that pertains to being a responsible signer on a cc???

[centex]

What, if anything, was sent to the tow company after the initial notice was received?

[LoveLife]

Originally Posted by centex

What, if anything, was sent to the tow company after the initial notice was received?

I'd love to tell you but I don't remember. I doubt anything was sent in the mail.

Although, I am fairly sure I spoke with someone over the phone. I was unaware that is a big no no.

[jlynn]

Originally Posted by LoveLife

1. Is it true that since I was a minor at the time that guy crashed the car that I was not liable?

That would depend on your state's laws on age of majority to enter into contracts.

2. Where could I find information on the process of proving I was a minor, etc? I was told by a loan officer friend that "it's a lot of legwork".

A birth certificate, driver's license, and a calculator that computes thru 4 digits is a lot of legwork?

3. I was going to initiate a "dispute" on the Experian site, but I was worried about the statute of limitations. I won't "restart" the time period on the debt (the time it takes for it to become uncollectable), will I?

No disputing does not restart the clock, but even if it is deleted from your credit report, it does nothing for the underlying debt.

If it were me, I would send a letter to the CA that is reporting, a letter that you are not responsible for this debt, you had not reached the age of majority when this debt was incurred, and submit a copy of your DL (redacted) along with the dispute. Send it Certified Mail.

Once the CMRR is received by the furnisher, then send the exact same dispute directly to all CRA's that are reporting the debt, with the same redacted DL.

Then, sit back and see if it might come off your reports the easy way. It is very old.

[jlynn]

Originally Posted by roybean

I think JLyinn knows about the 'minor' issue, but I always thought that pertains to being a responsible signer on a cc???

Roybean, a cc is just another type of contract. Depending on state's laws, which may vary, age of majority (no longer a minor), would likely apply to all sorts of contracts.

Lucy's daughter had a similar situation a while back, but in her case it did apply to a credit card, and I do believe that even though she was a minor when it was opened, she used it after she reached 18.

[jlynn]

Originally Posted by jlynn

If it were me, I would send a letter to the CA that is reporting, a letter that you are not responsible for this debt, you had not reached the age of majority when this debt was incurred, and submit a copy of your DL (redacted) along with the dispute. Send it Certified Mail.

Once the CMRR is received by the furnisher, then send the exact same dispute directly to all CRA's that are reporting the debt, with the same redacted DL.

Then, sit back and see if it might come off your reports the easy way. It is very old.

BTW, I'm have no idea if this is a valid dispute in California. There is some indication that if you had a license you may be considered an adult in CA for at least some purposes http://calbar.ca.gov/calbar/html_unc...d/4kids-01.htm

You would have to do some research to see if, since you had a DL, and had a car registered in your name, if you were considered an adult for purposes of selling that car (and handling the paperwork properly), as well as the various towing laws/ordinances to see if you could be held responsible for towing fees since at the time the towing occurred you were still the legal owner of the vehicle.

FWIW to anyone out there - I don't know about other states, but in TX, there is a form you can send in to the state when you sell your vehicle, indicating the new owner of the vehicle, in case someone doesn't run out and title a car in their name. Since an pathetic majority of people around here believe that both DL's and insurance are an optional thing, the last few cash cars I sold, I sent in the paperwork immediately, to protect myself.

[centex]

Where this one gets messy is that it is not an issue related to the signing of a contract. Given that the vehicle was in OP's name, the question will become one of whether her parents signed the title at the time the sale was consumated. Further, the question will come up as to why notice was not provided to the DMV that the vehicle had been sold (in many states, simply signing the title is not the end of the obligations).

It may also be a situation where having had the vehicle in OP's name could be interpreted by a court as indicia of an emancipated minor, which could change the ground rules considerably.

This would be a case where OP would be well-served to buy an hour or so of time with local counsel (and not someone from the NACA lists).

[roybean]

Have you asked your parents about this? Maybe they kept records of the transaction. This could be just a big mess in which paperwork was not properly filed or someone did not follow though on something.

[LoveLife]

Thanks for the replies.

Originally Posted by jlynn

BTW, I'm have no idea if this is a valid dispute in California. There is some indication that if you had a license you may be considered an adult in CA for at least some purposes

Going purely by that page, I would say that I would still not be liable. It mentions being treated as an adult when it comes to acquiring a driver's license. To me, that sounds totally different.

Originally Posted by jlynn

You would have to do some research to see if, since you had a DL, and had a car registered in your name, if you were considered an adult for purposes of selling that car (and handling the paperwork properly), as well as the various towing laws/ordinances to see if you could be held responsible for towing fees since at the time the towing occurred you were still the legal owner of the vehicle.

Where should I do this research? As for me being the owner, I am fairly sure that one of my parent's names was on the registration as well. I am not sure why I was the only one who got stuck with the tab.

Originally Posted by centex

It may also be a situation where having had the vehicle in OP's name could be interpreted by a court as indicia of an emancipated minor, which could change the ground rules considerably.

Well, I was never emancipated if that's what you mean.

Originally Posted by centex

This would be a case where OP would be well-served to buy an hour or so of time with local counsel (and not someone from the NACA lists).

I thought about that but wouldn't know where to find counsel. Where should I look? How much should I expect to pay?

Originally Posted by roybean

Have you asked your parents about this? Maybe they kept records of the transaction. This could be just a big mess in which paperwork was not properly filed or someone did not follow though on something.

Unfortunately, they don't have anything. I've already talked to them.

[jlynn]

Originally Posted by LoveLife

Thanks for the replies.



Going purely by that page, I would say that I would still not be liable. It mentions being treated as an adult when it comes to acquiring a driver's license. To me, that sounds totally different.

Yes, it does sound totally different, but without digging through California's statutes, and all of the possible nuances, it shouldn't be dismissed on its face.

Where should I do this research? As for me being the owner, I am fairly sure that one of my parent's names was on the registration as well. I am not sure why I was the only one who got stuck with the tab.

A parent's name on the title could change all the ground rules - I was under the impression you were sole owner. As far as you getting stuck with the tab, that's life being a co-owner. Creditors can choose to go after you solely, another co-owner solely, or, possibly throw everybody into the pile and see who comes up with the cash.

I thought about that but wouldn't know where to find counsel. Where should I look? How much should I expect to pay?

You might try talking to someone familiar with state motor vehicle laws, and would probably want to talk with someone within the county from where the car was towed. If you are lucky, you might find a free consult, but would probably get more helpful info if you are willing to shell out the money for an hour of an attorney's time. ($100-$150 bucks maybe?) You have any friends in car sales? Maybe their company has an attorney they use for title issues?

My suggestion is to see what kinds of info you can get from the DMV, so you can verify if you were sole, or co-owner. The more info you walk in to an attorney's office with, the more info you will walk out with for your money.

As Centex said, this could turn into a mess, but then it could be something as simple as the original towing company not ever realizing you were a minor (my birthdate is not on my vehicle title.

[LoveLife]

How do I get all the information about the towing company?

Should the first thing I do be to dispute on Experian's website? Would that give me information on the collection agency? Should I send any letters to the collection agency?

[Hedwig]

Before you dispute anything, you need to get a lot of information as suggested here. You need to know a little more about what you're headed into before you go disputing, so you know exactly what actions you're going to want to take.

[apexcrsrvc]

Originally Posted by centex

Where this one gets messy is that it is not an issue related to the signing of a contract. Given that the vehicle was in OP's name, the question will become one of whether her parents signed the title at the time the sale was consumated. Further, the question will come up as to why notice was not provided to the DMV that the vehicle had been sold (in many states, simply signing the title is not the end of the obligations).

It may also be a situation where having had the vehicle in OP's name could be interpreted by a court as indicia of an emancipated minor, which could change the ground rules considerably.

This would be a case where OP would be well-served to buy an hour or so of time with local counsel (and not someone from the NACA lists).

Hedwig turned me on to this from over at creditnet but, I do have to agree with Centex here. This is a messy onion with a few layers. I think that everything tends to turn on whether the minor or the parents signed off on the bill of sale/title. I beleive that a minor may disavow an obligation (unless affirmed) but, they can still contract to sell goods nonetheless. Its been a while since Contracts but, I think that is correct.

If the minor signed off, I think that the best move here may be to let this slide off the report. I suppose it may be possible to go after the purchaser of the vehicle as well but, that probably would only be feasible in a contribution claim should they be sued.

Again, alot of this is hard to get your head around without knowing some more specifics. That in mind, I would consult an attorney in the jurisdiction of the OP's residence.

[Pale Rider]

Is there any way to look up the history of who paid for license plates each year? That would show the names and addresses of the other people who had the car at the time. Was anything at all signed at the time of the sale?