Non PP Question

JayinGR · 12-12-2007, 06:13 PM

Hi Guys,

Question. Statewide utility company has been pulling CR's of spouses who are NOT on the utility bill and under MI Supreme Court CL are not responsible for each others bills (thanks jlynn)

So say DW has utility service for gas in HER NAME ONLY and the util co doesnt even know my name but pulls my credit the same day they pull hers is that a NON PP situation?

This has happened to me, parents and my good friend so far.

Thanks

Pale Rider · 12-12-2007, 06:25 PM

From the FTC commentary on FCRA

5. Information on an Applicant's Spouse
A. Permissible purpose. A creditor may request any information concerning an applicant's spouse if that spouse will be permitted to use the account or will be contractually liable upon the account, or the applicant is relying on the spouse's income as a basis for repayment of the credit requested. A creditor may request any information concerning an applicant's spouse if (1) the state law doctrine of necessaries applies to the transaction, or (2) the applicant resides in a community property state, or (3) the property upon which the applicant is relying as a basis for repayment of the credit requested is located in such a state, or (4) the applicant is acting as the agent of the nonapplicant spouse.

B. Lack of permissible purpose. If the creditor receives information clearly indicating that the applicant is not acting as the agent of the nonapplicant spouse, and that the applicant is relying only on separate property to repay the credit extended, and that the state law doctrine of necessaries does not apply to the transaction and that the applicant does not reside in a community property state, the creditor does not have a permissible purpose for obtaining a report on a nonapplicant spouse. A permissible purpose for making a consumer report on a nonapplicant spouse can never exist under the FCRA, where Regulation B, issued under the Equal Credit Opportunity Act (12 CFR 202), prohibits the creditor from requesting information on such spouse. There is no permissible purpose to obtain a consumer report on a nonapplicant former spouse or on a nonapplicant spouse who has legally separated or otherwise indicated an intent to legally disassociate with the marriage. (This does not preclude reporting a prior joint credit account of former spouses for which the spouse that is the subject of the report is still contractually liable.

JayinGR · 12-12-2007, 06:47 PM

Thanks Pale.

We do not live in a community property state and the doctrine of necessaries does not apply here as Jlynn pointed out a while ago in Keift v. North Ottawa (MI Supreme Court Case)

I am not her agent and I dont know about my parents dealings but I have never spoke with the util co at all concerning wifes account nor have I paid them from my checking account or credit card.

The fact that I live in the house and "use" the gas as it keeps the whole house warm does that give them a PP?

spinn · 12-12-2007, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayinGR

Thanks Pale.

We do not live in a community property state and the doctrine of necessaries does not apply here as Jlynn pointed out a while ago in Keift v. North Ottawa (MI Supreme Court Case)

I am not her agent and I dont know about my parents dealings but I have never spoke with the util co at all concerning wifes account nor have I paid them from my checking account or credit card.

The fact that I live in the house and "use" the gas as it keeps the whole house warm does that give them a PP?

"..........or the applicant is relying on the spouse's income as a basis for repayment of the credit requested. "

Doesnt your wife rely on your income to pay the bill?

it seems like they have pp.

JayinGR · 12-12-2007, 07:03 PM

No wife has own income and they dont ask about income or spouse when applying for service

Pale Rider · 12-12-2007, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayinGR

The fact that I live in the house and "use" the gas as it keeps the whole house warm does that give them a PP?

Not by itself. Otherwise they could pull the kids reports also.

JayinGR · 12-12-2007, 08:49 PM

Thanks Pale!!

Pale Rider · 12-12-2007, 09:30 PM

I would write them and ask what their PP was. Give them a chance to explain what they are doing and why.

JayinGR · 12-12-2007, 09:43 PM

I did call them (recorded of course) and asked them what their PP was. They referred me to the recovery dept after I pushed the issue and the first CR could not help me. The recovery dept said because I was DW spouse they could pull my credit as I lived in the house. I told them that was absurd and asked if they ever heard of the FCRA. The lady acted like I was speaking german or something.

Hedwig · 12-12-2007, 09:49 PM

Probably more like Greek!!

spinn · 12-12-2007, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayinGR

No wife has own income and they dont ask about income or spouse when applying for service

I realize that but believe that it could be argued that if you and DW each make $50k a year, a reasonable person could conclude you pay for half of the bill.

I think a judge could rule either way....absent case law.

I would take PRs advice....and let them hang themselves.

Pale Rider · 12-12-2007, 10:39 PM

How did they know you were living in the house at the time?

How did they get your name to begin with?

JayinGR · 12-12-2007, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pale Rider

How did they know you were living in the house at the time?

How did they get your name to begin with?

This I do not know...

i believe they got my name from DW EX report as it says my name on their as spouse. EX refuses to remove that and some phone #'s

They dont know I am living in the house. They just know I am DW spouse and thats why they claim they can pull it.

Hedwig · 12-13-2007, 12:15 AM

If you're her spouse, the logical assumption is that you are living in the same house.

drivel · 12-13-2007, 08:28 AM

Your wife should keep you tied up in the back yard, then you wont be able to be held responsible.

JayinGR · 12-13-2007, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hedwig

If you're her spouse, the logical assumption is that you are living in the same house.

I figured that, but I am still of the belief they dont have a PP.

I say this because when you call to start service they do not ask who is residing in the house, their ages ect. All they want to know is who the service is going into and the normal stuff dob, ss# ect. Within about a minute they give you an acct # and thats it. Service started, end of phone call and you get bills thats it.

I have been on their site and I cant find anything resembling a user agreement...not even an arb clause

JayinGR · 12-13-2007, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drivel

Your wife should keep you tied up in the back yard, then you wont be able to be held responsible.

Listen smart azz....lol I dont mind being responsible. The whole point is they just cant go on a PP binge with consumers reports. This is exactly the kind of stuff that created ID theft.

But on a lighter note, I am glad to see you still have your sense of humor Dr. E