[cprems]

Originally Posted by hannah

Under TX law, you can ask for validation at any time. TX people can chime in here and tell you the statute.

Your fight with NCO does not involve Citi insofar as suing NCO for something Citi did. Since Citi was the one that allegedly stole your money, you will have to initiate a suit against them to recover if you cannot get to do so by any other means. I don't really think that you will win this unless the checking was only in your name. (One thing: Don't EVER give banking info to anyone.) TX is a community property state and your wife did owe the $$. It will be very tough to prove that access was not granted IMHO.

If what you say now is that NCO owns the account, then they will be the ones coming at you with demands and perhaps a suit.

So what are my options now. Once they reply I will ask for validation and see if they can come up with an agreement or signature. Anyone know what else is afforded me any rights under TX law. As for the account they used the routing number from one of my checks my wife used to pay an installment. This was the ONLY way they could have gotten the bank information.

Ian

[hannah]

Originally Posted by cprems

So what are my options now. Once they reply I will ask for validation and see if they can come up with an agreement or signature. Anyone know what else is afforded me any rights under TX law. As for the account they used the routing number from one of my checks my wife used to pay an installment. This was the ONLY way they could have gotten the bank information.

Ian

Unless spelled out in TX statute (and I'm quite sure it isn't), they don't need to come up with a signature to establish that the debt is owed. If NCO sues your wife and they don't have the signed loan papers from Citi then you may have a shot at attacking the suit and winning. That's a big if. Can't cross that bridge until you get to it.

As for proving that Citi had no access to your account or that permission was not granted will have to come from discovery after you file suit. I cannot imagine that they will give the money back voluntarily. Depending on the amount withdrawn, it may be something you will just have to eat as it may not be worth the trouble of filing suit over but only you can make that call.

[cprems]

Originally Posted by hannah

Unless spelled out in TX statute (and I'm quite sure it isn't), they don't need to come up with a signature to establish that the debt is owed. If NCO sues your wife and they don't have the signed loan papers from Citi then you may have a shot at attacking the suit and winning. That's a big if. Can't cross that bridge until you get to it.

As for proving that Citi had no access to your account or that permission was not granted will have to come from discovery after you file suit. I cannot imagine that they will give the money back voluntarily. Depending on the amount withdrawn, it may be something you will just have to eat as it may not be worth the trouble of filing suit over but only you can make that call.

Even though they treated her like a dog, cussed screamed and harassed us for months on end, I guess i should roll over and let it go. Where is this law thats supposed to protect the consumer from aggressive collections. Now they have sold it to NCO. So what am I to do...Fold or fight

Ian

[hannah]

Originally Posted by cprems

Even though they treated her like a dog, cussed screamed and harassed us for months on end, I guess i should roll over and let it go. Where is this law thats supposed to protect the consumer from aggressive collections. Now they have sold it to NCO. So what am I to do...Fold or fight

Ian

Citi was the OC. They are NOT bound by the FDCPA but may be bound by Texas Unfair Trade Practices. Do you have any proof these things happened? Recording, etc.? If you have no proof these things actually happened I can't see how you can win in court. I"m not saying you can't try, but it will be tough.

Also, did Citi have a 3rd party collector collecting for them?

[cprems]

Originally Posted by hannah

Citi was the OC. They are NOT bound by the FDCPA but may be bound by Texas Unfair Trade Practices. Do you have any proof these things happened? Recording, etc.? If you have no proof these things actually happened I can't see how you can win in court. I"m not saying you can't try, but it will be tough.

Also, did Citi have a 3rd party collector collecting for them?

From what NCO told me they own the debt outright (thats what the lady told me.) Does this have any bearing on my situation. Should we try to negotiate the debt, file bankruptcy or seek credit counseling/debt consolidation. I cant see anyway of us prevailing in a possible judgment case.

Ian

[jlynn]

Originally Posted by hannah

Citi was the OC. They are NOT bound by the FDCPA but may be bound by Texas Unfair Trade Practices. Do you have any proof these things happened? Recording, etc.? If you have no proof these things actually happened I can't see how you can win in court. I"m not saying you can't try, but it will be tough.

Hannah is referring to the Texas Finance Code - specifically Chapter 392. It does differentiate between collectors, and 3rd party debt collectors. The harrassment you suffered at the hands of Citi is probably not legal Finance Code, but again at this stage, do you have any proof? It will be a hard row to sow if you don't.

Apex mentioned that Citi was litigious - he may have missed the part that this is not Citi Bank the credit card, but Citi Financial which is a loan company - generally for household goods. They may or may not be as sue happy.

NCO is alot of blow, and if you can catch them violating, you can generally make them go away. They are forever in deep doo doo with the FTC. If they have threatened to sue you and don't, that's one violation. They will make others. But it is your responsibility to document those violations. Texas is a one-party state. You should get a tape recorder at the local Radio Shack before you talk to them again. You need to learn about the Texas Finance Code, the FDCPA to a lesser degree, and the Texas Deceptive Trade Practices Act.


Chances are, when your account was debited for payments, Regulation E was violated - however, you had a time frame in which to notify the bank (about 60 days) - that's why Enigma asked you how long ago these unauthorized transactions took place.

Originally Posted by Hannah

Unless spelled out in TX statute (and I'm quite sure it isn't), they don't need to come up with a signature to establish that the debt is owed.

Centex has posted recent opinions that make it clear signed documentation may not be needed. However, I will say it again, Citifinancial is probably not a credit card, but rather an installment loan, and statutes might differ.

[roybean]

I say again...if you're not recording, STAY OFF THE PHONE! You need a way to prove what is happening and what has happened. Tha means documenting all calls, (keep a log), correspondences, write down names, when you get a letter note the day you recieved it. We understand that they abused you and your wife, but you have to lay some tracks and be kool. Take a deep breath, and get busy.

[cprems]

JLynn, I reported the withdrawals as soon as they showed up on my account. The credit union said I could not get my money back as it had gone through as an ACH transaction. I have the phone records of how many times they called my house and my wife's cell phone. I do not have any recorded proof. I am dealing with NCO's attorneys, is this how they collect.

Ian

[roybean]

Originally Posted by cprems

JLynn, I reported the withdrawals as soon as they showed up on my account. The credit union said I could not get my money back as it had gone through as an ACH transaction. I have the phone records of how many times they called my house and my wife's cell phone. I do not have any recorded proof. I am dealing with NCO's attorneys, is this how they collect.

Ian

NCO? Absolutely!

NCO Financial Systems **** Bud Says

Texan sues over FDCPA violations | HelpForDebtors.com

Johnson v. NCO Financial Systems

[Enigma]

Originally Posted by cprems

JLynn, I reported the withdrawals as soon as they showed up on my account. The credit union said I could not get my money back as it had gone through as an ACH transaction.

Your credit union is wrong! As per Regulation E:

§ 205.6 Liability of consumer for unauthorized transfers.

(a) Conditions for liability. A consumer may be held liable, within the limitations described in paragraph (b) of this section, for an unauthorized electronic fund transfer involving the consumer's account only if the financial institution has provided the disclosures required by § 205.7(b)(1), (2), and (3). If the unauthorized transfer involved an access device, it must be an accepted access device and the financial institution must have provided a means to identify the consumer to whom it was issued.
(b) Limitations on amount of liability. A consumer's liability for an unauthorized electronic fund transfer or a series of related unauthorized transfers shall be determined as follows:
(1) Timely notice given. If the consumer notifies the financial institution within two business days after learning of the loss or theft of the access device, the consumer's liability shall not exceed the lesser of $50 or the amount of unauthorized transfers that occur before notice to the financial institution.
(2) Timely notice not given. If the consumer fails to notify the financial institution within two business days after learning of the loss or theft of the access device, the consumer's liability shall not exceed the lesser of $500 or the sum of:
(i) $50 or the amount of unauthorized transfers that occur within the two business days, whichever is less; and
(ii) The amount of unauthorized transfers that occur after the close of two business days and before notice to the institution, provided the institution establishes that these transfers would not have occurred had the consumer notified the institution within that two-day period.
(3) Periodic statement; timely notice not given. A consumer must report an unauthorized electronic fund transfer that appears on a periodic statement within 60 days of the financial institution's transmittal of the statement to avoid liability for subsequent transfers. If the consumer fails to do so, the consumer's liability shall not exceed the amount of the unauthorized transfers that occur after the close of the 60 days and before notice to the institution, and that the institution establishes would not have occurred had the consumer notified the institution within the 60-day period. When an access device is involved in the unauthorized transfer, the consumer may be liable for other amounts set forth in paragraphs (b)(1) or (b)(2) of this section, as applicable.
(4) Extension of time limits. If the consumer's delay in notifying the financial institution was due to extenuating circumstances, the institution shall extend the times specified above to a reasonable period.
(5) Notice to financial institution. (i) Notice to a financial institution is given when a consumer takes steps reasonably necessary to provide the institution with the pertinent information, whether or not a particular employee or agent of the institution actually receives the information.
(ii) The consumer may notify the institution in person, by telephone, or in writing.
(iii) Written notice is considered given at the time the consumer mails the notice or delivers it for transmission to the institution by any other usual means. Notice may be considered constructively given when the institution becomes aware of circumstances leading to the reasonable belief that an unauthorized transfer to or from the consumer's account has been or may be made.
(6) Liability under state law or agreement. If state law or an agreement between the consumer and the financial institution imposes less liability than is provided by this section, the consumer's liability shall not exceed the amount imposed under the state law or agreement.

[Codified to 12 C.F.R. § 205.6]

Read these:

Unauthorized or Revoked ACH Debits - Andy Zavoina and John Burnett
Corporate Customer/Timeline to Dispute Unauthorized ACH - John Burnett
Unauthorized EFT - Bank Notified After 60 Days - John Burnett

[Enigma]

Since you relied on false information from your CU, the sixty-day time limit will not apply.

Further, IMHO since you relied on false information, the bank needs to refund the amount withdrawn, credit any over draft fees and pay you interest on monies lost. Not only was your CU negligent in providing you wrong information they are also culpable.


I would also write to the corporate counsel of the company that withdrew the funds, point out there error. Tell them that you have (you will make a police report) made a police report and that you have written the Attorney General of your state and the FBI to investigate them for wire fraud, bank fraud and possible postal fraud. I would also cc the CEO and the board of directors.

In other words start making some noise and they will make this go away.

[hannah]

Perhaps I misunderstood but you said Citi was the one who did the withdrawal and was making the harassing phone calls. Who was it? Citifinancial or NCO?

[cprems]

Originally Posted by hannah

Perhaps I misunderstood but you said Citi was the one who did the withdrawal and was making the harassing phone calls. Who was it? Citifinancial or NCO?

Hannah, It was Citifinancial who did the above to us.


Ian

[cprems]

Originally Posted by Enigma

Since you relied on false information from your CU, the sixty-day time limit will not apply.

Who should i contact at the Credit Union about this. What proof do I need that this took place (my account was closed)

Further, IMHO since you relied on false information, the bank needs to refund the amount withdrawn, credit any over draft fees and pay you interest on monies lost. Not only was your CU negligent in providing you wrong information they are also culpable.

I will have to get my bank records for this correct.

I would also write to the corporate counsel of the company that withdrew the funds, point out there error. Tell them that you have (you will make a police report) made a police report and that you have written the Attorney General of your state and the FBI to investigate them for wire fraud, bank fraud and possible postal fraud. I would also cc the CEO and the board of directors.

Where do I find these email addresses.

In other words start making some noise and they will make this go away.

Ian

[cprems]

How do I get "hard copies" of our credit reports. My wife was just turned down for a credit card by Chase, who used transunion for reporting. All i could see was the "internet credit reports" Does any one have a physical address I can write and get them.

Ian

[roybean]

Originally Posted by cprems