TAX LIEN - REPORTING PERIOD

[PDXBLAZERFAN]

Hello Board -

For the record, GO DUCKS !


With public records or at least tax liens, CRAs rely on the "date filed" as a basis for the reporting period.

There is no limit for reporting unpaid tax liens and Experian, as jlynn as posted here, reports these for for 15 years.

The IRS doesn't always file a release when the debt is paid. The CRA doesn't have accurate information because there is not public record for the debt being paid.

My questions are:

1) What is the statutory date to begin reporting period? How can CRAs use "date filed" instead of "date of assessment"? I understand the CRA can assume as of the "date filed" the debt was unpaid and the "date of assessment" is the date the debt was created. Between the two dates, the more accurate would be "date of assessment" as the debt is due immediately or past due.

2) Experian has a column titled "date resolved" and is reporting "NA" meaning not applicable. This can not be accurate. There is a difference between a paid and unpaid debts. This lien is paid and not being reported as such.

3) Are there other issues with CRAs reporting Public record tax liens that I should be aware of? Any FTC staff opinions or the like?

Thank you.

[Enigma]

The information you are looking for is found here.

It is possible to obtain removal. But it takes some time. About a year after the lien is filed, the paper work is transferred to the archives division. For the time being, this is still a manual process.

On or about the one year mark, dispute the entry on the credit report. The CRA is required to obtain verification from the IRS. This is a manual process and can take 60-90 days. However, if the CRA does not receive verification within thirty days then the item must be deleted.

[jlynn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PDXBLAZERFAN The IRS doesn't always file a release when the debt is paid. The CRA doesn't have accurate information because there is not public record for the debt being paid.

Then you need to get the IRS to file the release, and make sure they don't date it current, but date it back to the date it was paid.

My questions are:

Quote:

1) What is the statutory date to begin reporting period? How can CRAs use "date filed" instead of "date of assessment"? I understand the CRA can assume as of the "date filed" the debt was unpaid and the "date of assessment" is the date the debt was created. Between the two dates, the more accurate would be "date of assessment" as the debt is due immediately or past due.

I've never seen an actual IRS lien. Is the assessment date on there? The FCRA is silent, since it only addresses the fact that they can report 7 years from date paid, therefore the assessment vs the filed date would have little bearing, except maybe in FICO scores. Might be a novel argument to try, if, again, the assessment date is info that is available on the hard copy of the lien.

Quote:

2) Experian has a column titled "date resolved" and is reporting "NA" meaning not applicable. This can not be accurate. There is a difference between a paid and unpaid debts. This lien is paid and not being reported as such.

Resolved is paid, so it makes sense that absent one, the other is NA

Quote:

3) Are there other issues with CRAs reporting Public record tax liens that I should be aware of? Any FTC staff opinions or the like?

I've never seen any opinion letters, and not sure of any other issues. The lien hubby had was 20 years ago. It actually never did report as released, but disappeared on an obsolete dispute.

[PDXBLAZERFAN]

Please find attached copy of NFTL.

Enigma's suggestion: Dispute and due to IRS delay, CRA will be forced to remove. I don't think it works that way. IRS is not furnisher of information. Account information furnisher is listed as County Recorder. Some say, information is obtained two methods by third parties and direct telecommunicative link to county records.

jlynn suggests I get a copy of the release. In this case, see attached NFTL, it has been released. SEE column (e) and "IMPORTANT INFORMATION". In addition, it is paid not just released due to time. In any case, jlynn suggestion to get a copy would be solely for the consumers records and not to supply the CRA with accurate information.

Jlynn says the statute only refers to the "date paid". It this specific to public records or tax liens? I thought reporting period was based on date of delinquency? The "date paid' is the part of any public record. I have not seen a "Release"

By reporting the "date resolved" as "NA" when it is a paid debt is not accurate. I wrote a dispute letter stating such and "date filed" is misleading. I also asked for date reporting period starts and as Experian reports for closed accounts, date when item is scheduled to stop reporting.

[Enigma]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PDXBLAZERFAN Please find attached copy of NFTL. jlynn suggests I get a copy of the release. In this case, see attached NFTL, it has been released. SEE column (e) and "IMPORTANT INFORMATION". In addition, it is paid not just released due to time. In any case, jlynn suggestion to get a copy would be solely for the consumers records and not to supply the CRA with accurate information.

Column (e) refers to the date the lien has to be re-filed or time runs for refiling. It has noting to do with it being paid.

You need a Form 668Z filed.

[Enigma]

What entity is being reported as the DF?

[PDXBLAZERFAN]

County Recorder is being reported as DF.

[jlynn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PDXBLAZERFAN Please find attached copy of NFTL. Enigma's suggestion: Dispute and due to IRS delay, CRA will be forced to remove. I don't think it works that way. IRS is not furnisher of information. Account information furnisher is listed as County Recorder. Some say, information is obtained two methods by third parties and direct telecommunicative link to county records.

I always thought that it was reported and verified at the County Clerk level (or whatever your state calls it).

Quote:

jlynn suggests I get a copy of the release. In this case, see attached NFTL, it has been released. SEE column (e) and "IMPORTANT INFORMATION". In addition, it is paid not just released due to time. In any case, jlynn suggestion to get a copy would be solely for the consumers records and not to supply the CRA with accurate information.

I'm confused by the notice. It looks like it was paid and released in 1998? If so, I would send a copy of this to the CRA's "Lien released in 1998 - this is obsolete.

Quote:

Jlynn says the statute only refers to the "date paid". It this specific to public records or tax liens? I thought reporting period was based on date of delinquency? The "date paid' is the part of any public record. I have not seen a "Release"

Specific to tax liens. They can report for 7 years from date paid.

Quote:

By reporting the "date resolved" as "NA" when it is a paid debt is not accurate. I wrote a dispute letter stating such and "date filed" is misleading. I also asked for date reporting period starts and as Experian reports for closed accounts, date when item is scheduled to stop reporting.

I think you made a mistake here, because I see a "filed" date of 2005 at the top of your attachment. EX is likely going to mis-interpret it.

[PDXBLAZERFAN]

Thanks for the input.

Jlynn, I confused by 1998 and 2005 as dates in your post.

My dates are:

"Date of assessment" - 11/03/1997

"Date Filed" - 04/22/2004

"Last date for Refiling" aka Release - 12/03/2007

There is no "date paid" in the public record.

There is "date filed" for Release of FTL or "Last Date for Refiling" on the NFTL.

Again, there is no "date paid" as referred to in the statute.

In this case, it was paid before the "Last Date for Refiling".

CRAs are using "date filed" of a NFTL as basis for reporting a unpaid tax lien.

This information becomes inaccurate when consumer pays debt and there is no public record. It continues to be reported as unpaid when it is in fact paid.

I disputed the "date resolved" as being reported as "NA".

[jlynn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PDXBLAZERFAN Thanks for the input. Jlynn, I confused by 1998 and 2005 as dates in your post.

2005 is the recorded date, stamped across the top of the page you attached. 1998 is the date that C Sherwood signed and dated the paper.

[PDXBLAZERFAN]

Jlynn -

There are two attachments in this post.

You are looking at Enigma's example of a "Release of FTL"

In my second post, is my NFTL. Responding to your post of - never having seen a NFTL.

Thanks Again fo Your Input

[PDXBLAZERFAN]

IMHO,

CRAs shouldn't be allowed to report information when the statutory requirements cannot be met; the "date paid" is not available to begin tolling the reporting period.

It is my understanding statute allows unpaid tax liens to be reported indefinitely and paid liens seven years from payment.

In Enigma's example of a Release, there still is an unpaid balance. I think the CRAs could STILL report this information. If it were paid, there is no "date paid" column.

The NFTL is information that an unpaid tax lien exists but this information becomes inaccurate if lien is paid. Again, the "date paid" is not public record.

Where is the Caselaw?

[Enigma]

If you look at the Notice you provided. it clearly states that unless the Lien is refiled, column (e) serves as the date of release.

Unless the Lien was refiled, the reporting date runs from 12/03/2007 through 2014.

Certificates - Claim for Damages


Internal Revenue Code § 6325. RELEASE OF LIEN OR DISCHARGE OF PROPERTY.

6325(a) RELEASE OF LIEN. --Subject to such regulations as the Secretary may prescribe, the Secretary shall issue a certificate of release of any lien imposed with respect to any internal revenue tax not later than 30 days after the day on which --



6325(a)(1) LIABILITY SATISFIED OR UNENFORCEABLE. --The Secretary finds that the liability for the amount assessed, together with all interest in respect thereof, has been fully satisfied or has become legally unenforceable; or



6325(a)(2) BOND ACCEPTED. --There is furnished to the Secretary and accepted by him a bond that is conditioned upon the payment of the amount assessed, together with all interest in respect thereof, within the time prescribed by law (including any extension of such time), and that is in accordance with such requirements relating to terms, conditions, and form of the bond and sureties thereon, as may be specified by such regulations.

[PDXBLAZERFAN]

Thank you for your input.

Trying to establish how CRAs interpret the FCRA with regard to tax liens. The statute sets the "date paid" as the day to being tolling the 7 year reporting period.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enigma If you look at the Notice you provided. it clearly states that unless the Lien is refiled, column (e) serves as the date of release. Unless the Lien was refiled, the reporting date runs from 12/03/2007 through 2014.

Meaning the "last date for refiling" which is also the "release date" is interpreted as the "date paid" required by stature?

If the CRAs are relying on the NFTL or RFTL and its column (e) "Last Date for Refiling", it is not fulfilling its statutory obligation to toll the reporting period using "date paid" as the starting point.

This practice is problematic and harms the consumer. In my case, the debt/taxes were paid before the "last date of refiling" and IRS did not issue a RFTL. The CRAs don't have access to the "date paid" as it is not part of the public record.

jlynn suggested:
Then you need to get the IRS to file the release, and make sure they don't date it current, but date it back to the date it was paid.

Examine the RFTL. There is no column for "date paid". CRAs use "date filed" which is not accurate.

It is my observation that CRAs could report the attached RFTL in this thread, as it is unpaid.

Enigma: In the Griswald case attached, is the date paid addressed? Scanned document for "date paid" and found nothing.

[Enigma]

Write to the IRS, using the guidelines in Publication 1450 (attached) to request a letter and an RFTL showing the date it was paid.

[PDXBLAZERFAN]

Requesting from the IRS, a letter with "date paid" along with a RFTL might work.

Thank you Enigma.

If I could just redirect, to the "date paid" in the statute. It is required to establish the start date for tolling the reporting period.

If "date paid" is not available to the CRA, they are reporting inaccurate information. Dare I say, it amounts to "willful noncompliance'?

Also can we discuss who the furnisher is? In non-public records, the account creditor or owner is the furnisher. In public records, CRAs list the County Recorder as the source/furnisher. If CRAs use third party or computer link to gather public records, isn't the CRA the furnisher? The third party is an agent of the CRA and the computer link is usually installed by the CRA.

Comments?

[Enigma]

In my local area I know for a fact that Lexis/Nexis (LN) pulls the data from the courts and records office.

One instance while at my local court, I observed a college aged young woman siting at a desk with several banker boxes of files. She was flipping through the pages entering data into a laptop. We had a very pleasant conversation. She said that she answered an ad for a data entry clerk at he college job board. She was hired by LN, given some training and a laptop to use. She travels to the court house closest to her, she combs the files entering the party name(s), type of lawsuit, dollar amount and some other fields. Once she return to her dorm, she connects to the internet and uploads the data. At that time she was paid $12.50/hour.

I've had several occasions to dispute court information for clients. Usually the CRA says the court provided the information. I then ask the court to confirm or deny what the CRA has stated. To date, the court has never admitted to supplying information to CRA's. I actually have a letter from the Clerk of Courts that states he despises CRA's.

I send a follow up letter to the CRA, providing a copy of the letter from the court demanding a deletion or their liability insurance information. So far 100% deletion success.