The purpose of a TOS

dabster · 12-16-2006, 10:02 AM

I'm trying to figure out the purpose of a TOS and why a website would need one. I understand having a privacy policy and abiding by it. Of course, this privacy policy would include not sharing your personal info, IPs, email addresses, etc. This would also include an effort on the owner's part (as well as other visitors) to alert someone if their privacy is in jeopardy over something they have devulged.

As for a TOS. All I can really think of is that it is a CYA measure. But does it need to be absurdly long, detailed, etc? Seems to me that one that is long-winded and trying to cover everything - unless written by a competent attorney - is fraught with errors, redundancy, and just stupid stuff in it.

I'm not pointing to any one TOS. I've seen a lot of them lately as I've visited sites and have made it a point to read their TOS. A lot of them are simple and straight forward. Others are just plain dumb and mean nothing.

Quote:

"Terms of Service are just plain retarded and web sites that use tehm are for losers.

Privacy notices are good, but they should never be more than one paragraph. If it takes more than a paragraph to explain your privacy policy, we have to wonder what it is you are trying to get away with. Rich Rogers
Sunday, May 01, 2005 "

I've read that Terms of Service are basically unenforceable and are just there to scare users. No idea how accurate that is, but...
Monday, May 02, 2005 Deleting... Approving...
That's totally accurate. If you are publically publishing your website and there's no registration to get in, you have no means to enforce any licensing contract. The whole concept is beyond absurd. People who put these things on their own sites are just overly impressed with their own importance. Rich Rogers
Tuesday, May 03, 2005

Let's say I refuse to agree to your terms and yet I continue reading or using the site. So you are going to sue me for breech of contract. What court will you sue me in? Under what laws or precedents will you claim a contract exists? Such a case would not only be thrown out, but *I* would be awarded counterdamages and legal fees for your wasting my time. Rich Rogers
Tuesday, May 03, 2005

jlynn · 12-16-2006, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dabster

As for a TOS. All I can really think of is that it is a CYA measure. But does it need to be absurdly long, detailed, etc?

Double-standards will always require absurdly long CYA's.

IMHO, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a well thought out TOS. IMHO, if you can cover today's necessary legal disclaimers, and your site's basic Rules of the Road in a generalized format - there is no need to edit one constantly. Its only those seat of the pants TOS's that have to be rewritten as fast as they are posted.

BTW - where did you find those quotes? They are, simply excellent!

dabster · 12-16-2006, 12:24 PM

Thanks. I agree about a well written TOS, but when you start making it the end-all-be-all of TOS' that it becomes a mess. Also, you have to realize when putting together a TOS, how much and/or what you really think you'll enforce. If you're putting crap out there that you have no intentions - or ability to enforce, why complicate your TOS?

Oh, and here's the website I found the quotes: http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/de...iz.5.118408.12

jlynn · 12-16-2006, 12:44 PM

I really like his $10 remark as well.

dabster · 12-16-2006, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlynn

I really like his $10 remark as well.

Yes, I was going to try that on one of my websites, but then he debunked it. I guess I'll have to think of something else to make my first million.

hannah · 12-16-2006, 01:57 PM

So if TOS's are only as good as the ability to enforce it, then why have one at all? All DB is trying to do is not allow the majority of Honored Guests and a few other members from here posting on their site or even viewing it for that matter. Their TOS is aimed at us which is laughable as I don't want to post, just to view which they cannot stop me doing...

My advice for those who want to comment on something posted there is to do so in a hypothetical way. That would not be threadsharking or infringing on copyright. For example, if you want to comment on something Rotty said, you would merely state that you understand that a certain member of a certain forum who is know for having several nicks and talking to herself has stated that <insert stupidity here> and then state what you think about it. No threadsharking nor copyright infringement has occurred if you use this approach...

jlynn · 12-16-2006, 02:14 PM

WVA - one of these days soon, you are going to be a helluva attorney.

Pale Rider · 12-16-2006, 02:24 PM

My question:

Why have a TOS that prohibits actions that are performed daily by those that wrote the TOS?

Oh yeah, double standard.

Fact is that everyone can clearly see that a TOS that is amended constantly to try and counter perceived actions of a few from a completely different site makes them look like clowns. Orange haired, red nosed, big shoed, mean spirited, alcoholic clowns that invade childrens nightmares. They could easily lose half of the TOS by stating "Owner reserves the right to change TOS at any time, and will have the final word in case of dispute." What do you expect from people that sue over increased FICO's, or believe you have no right to own property in the USA.

Another question:

Can you claim copyright on somethng that was stolen in the first place?

Good luck on that one.

hannah · 12-16-2006, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlynn

WVA - one of these days soon, you are going to be a helluva attorney.

Oh thank you! That the goal! Signed up for next semester already...I do sometimes ask myself what in the hell I am doing this for at my age?!

By the way guys...it's eggnog night! Starts around 8 pm...

hannah · 12-16-2006, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pale Rider

Another question:

Can you claim copyright on something that was stolen in the first place?

Good luck on that one.

Good question!! It's good to know that plagiarism is alive and well and being copyrighted...

dabster · 12-16-2006, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hannah

By the way guys...it's eggnog night! Starts around 8 pm...

It seems I've misplaced the directions to your house. Can you send those again please?

hannah · 12-16-2006, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dabster

It seems I've misplaced the directions to your house. Can you send those again please?

Just jump on a barge and come straight down river...

JayinGR · 12-16-2006, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hannah

By the way guys...it's eggnog night! Starts around 8 pm...

Hey do you have some rum over there for that eggnog...I'll swing by and pick up dabs and we'll be there around 9:00..you have a small airport near for me to land

Hedwig · 12-16-2006, 04:53 PM

Save me some for Monday night. I have to do a paper first.

jlynn · 12-16-2006, 05:08 PM

Hannah, has the chopper lifted off for me yet? If you hurry we can swing by and get CTX as well. However, just so she knows,

I call shotgun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

direred · 12-16-2006, 05:25 PM

I do understand TOS because there has been litigation over being denied posting on forums.